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Old 02-10-2014, 06:13 PM   #1
PoppaLarge
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How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

A huge leak I have live is FPS when running cool to cold at a table. Then I end up giving money to donks who limp-call with mid-high pocket pairs and then hold on for the entire hand. Most times I run a straight TAG ABC game because that's the best strategy for the table, but sometimes FPS just nails me. What do people do to avoid it?
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:19 PM   #2
rival4653
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If I'm running bad , I usually lower my pre flop raise amount. I m not building huge pots for these donks. I'm also lowering my c bet frequency and playing only in position. You can also use a raise or fold approach.

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Old 02-10-2014, 06:25 PM   #3
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

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Originally Posted by PoppaLarge View Post

Then I end up giving money to donks who limp-call with mid-high pocket pairs and then hold on for the entire hand.
FPS is not what is happening here.

The reality is the "donks" are targeting you and letting you value own yourself.
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:42 PM   #4
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

FPS is a gold mine for me and my winrate in some of the games i play in, lets say that right off the start

I personally have never understood the point of fancy play syndrome, and where that need comes from. Its probably connected to pride for many players, and i also believe for some players who lack self esteem about their game. So they believe they have to execute fancy play in all kind of spots to be seen as a skilled or good player. Maybe the feel the need for aproval of the other players at the table. But that is of course not the case.

Many have seen Ivey and Dwan pull off insane plays on HSP and poker after dark, and for some reasons think that its a good idea to execute similar plays on live low stakes facing a player pool that for the most part is in another galaxy when it comes to game approach og thinking level.

For my part i have always believed that the games we play in can be beat by solid ABC poker and good fundamentals that many of our opponents lacks. So i simply say that to myself before every session and during the session: "Keep it simple and keep doing the good solid play and wait for your spots- dont force it by doing risky high variance plays".

If you have problems with FPS i would advice you to do some personal reflections and dig deeper into this issue, and one of the main questions should be: Where does the need for fancy play really comes from?
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:52 PM   #5
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

play the vast majoruty of your hands in HJ CO BU

unless its a super loose passive game, dont open limp
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:55 PM   #6
DefendTheCult
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

What Gilmour said..
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:01 PM   #7
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Yeah when I first started playing I did FPS plays when losing. I assume that when you're running cold this is the case. The way to play when you're losing -- assuming you're still on your A or B game and just got unlucky -- is to tighten up, stop bluffing, and get fat value off everything. People will call and bluff you with anything when you're losing. Use that to your advantage. And you be back to even pretty quick. But if you're tilting, just rack up.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:14 PM   #8
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if you are running bad either play tighter pre flop or just rack up and come back to fight another day.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:08 PM   #9
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

You should always be evaluating and reevaluating how/when to play against the individuals at your table. If the cards don't come, don't force it. It's pretty simple to say, but somewhat difficult to execute.

If you have trouble with self-discipline, practice getting up and walking around every orbit or so. You don't even have to miss a hand; just grab a sip of water, get up for a bit, and catch the next hand before it's dealt. You won't feel nearly as impatient because frustration is far less likely to manifest itself physically (i.e. being tired or groggy).
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:11 AM   #10
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

A couple of things helped me...

1. Be confident in your game. Sometimes in poker the most +EV play is to fold. A lot. BELIEVE in this forever and ever. This is something that's hard to grasp and hard to convince to yourself. "I didn't drive all the way out here to fold for 3 hours," "I've been getting no hands and finding no good spots so I have to do something," "I have to go soon and I'm stuck a little, I need to start making moves now if I want to win." These are all things that used to go through my mind and brought on FPS. Eventually, though, I truly realized that folding is the correct long term play. Sometimes I'd lose a lot in an FPS hand and then win it back a few hands later in a standard awesomesauce spot. I started to realize, "Hey, if I just folded like I was supposed to in that stupid hand I would have left a winner instead of breaking even." Experience like that helps it all sink in.

2. Make sure you are playing to win. Not just there to gamble. Get in that mindset. On the drive there. While you are there. Etc. If things start to get frustrating, get up and take a walk (this has helped me a lot). Reset and play to win. Realize that a lot of the +EV in this game is when other players get frustrated or bored and make mistakes. Use that to your advantage, play the most winning style you are capable of and stick to it. Accept that runs of bad beats and dead cards are part of the game and are always going to happen eventually no matter how good of a player you are. The best players who win long term at this game are the ones who lose the minimum when they are running bad & card dead. Look at things in the long term, if you played your best and lost there's nothing to be ashamed of. Accept that bad times are part of the game. Trust that good things will happen in the long run if you commit yourself to a winning playing style & attitude.
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:01 AM   #11
PoppaLarge
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

Obvs this is tilty stuff going on but more restlessness than anything. I quit smoking a couple months ago and I think sometimes my brain switches over into nicotine fidgets while I'm playing.

Ironically enough, i rarely smoked when I played and could go hours and hours.

FPS has never been a problem for me before, this is sort of coming out of nowhere. So back to ABC meditation. And possibly getting an e-cig.
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:30 AM   #12
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty313 View Post
play the vast majoruty of your hands in HJ CO BU

unless its a super loose passive game, dont open limp
This. Listen to this carefully and follow it. You can definitely limp in on occasion if its not a very loose passive table but generally I would say you should be raising over half your hands at a lot of tables. Play up to 20 to 30% VPIP depending on tables. Fold your SB in multiway pots a ton. I literally fold my sb over 80% of the time even when whole table limps in.
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:31 AM   #13
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

Practice makes perfect. Everytime you play, try to improve one aspect at a time
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Old 02-11-2014, 03:39 AM   #14
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilmour View Post
FPS is a gold mine for me and my winrate in some of the games i play in, lets say that right off the start

I personally have never understood the point of fancy play syndrome, and where that need comes from. Its probably connected to pride for many players, and i also believe for some players who lack self esteem about their game. So they believe they have to execute fancy play in all kind of spots to be seen as a skilled or good player. Maybe the feel the need for aproval of the other players at the table. But that is of course not the case.

Many have seen Ivey and Dwan pull off insane plays on HSP and poker after dark, and for some reasons think that its a good idea to execute similar plays on live low stakes facing a player pool that for the most part is in another galaxy when it comes to game approach og thinking level.

For my part i have always believed that the games we play in can be beat by solid ABC poker and good fundamentals that many of our opponents lacks. So i simply say that to myself before every session and during the session: "Keep it simple and keep doing the good solid play and wait for your spots- dont force it by doing risky high variance plays".

If you have problems with FPS i would advice you to do some personal reflections and dig deeper into this issue, and one of the main questions should be: Where does the need for fancy play really comes from?
This and This

Quote:
Originally Posted by discgolfing
A couple of things helped me...

1. Be confident in your game. Sometimes in poker the most +EV play is to fold. A lot. BELIEVE in this forever and ever. This is something that's hard to grasp and hard to convince to yourself. "I didn't drive all the way out here to fold for 3 hours," "I've been getting no hands and finding no good spots so I have to do something," "I have to go soon and I'm stuck a little, I need to start making moves now if I want to win." These are all things that used to go through my mind and brought on FPS. Eventually, though, I truly realized that folding is the correct long term play. Sometimes I'd lose a lot in an FPS hand and then win it back a few hands later in a standard awesomesauce spot. I started to realize, "Hey, if I just folded like I was supposed to in that stupid hand I would have left a winner instead of breaking even." Experience like that helps it all sink in.

2. Make sure you are playing to win. Not just there to gamble. Get in that mindset. On the drive there. While you are there. Etc. If things start to get frustrating, get up and take a walk (this has helped me a lot). Reset and play to win. Realize that a lot of the +EV in this game is when other players get frustrated or bored and make mistakes. Use that to your advantage, play the most winning style you are capable of and stick to it. Accept that runs of bad beats and dead cards are part of the game and are always going to happen eventually no matter how good of a player you are. The best players who win long term at this game are the ones who lose the minimum when they are running bad & card dead. Look at things in the long term, if you played your best and lost there's nothing to be ashamed of. Accept that bad times are part of the game. Trust that good things will happen in the long run if you commit yourself to a winning playing style & attitude.
These mindsets are the MOST important thing to remember when you are trying to play winning poker. I constantly need to remember that I AM a good poker player, and I just need to have confidence in my game to win.
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Old 02-11-2014, 04:13 AM   #15
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

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Originally Posted by slimshady1999 View Post
This. Listen to this carefully and follow it. You can definitely limp in on occasion if its not a very loose passive table but generally I would say you should be raising over half your hands at a lot of tables. Play up to 20 to 30% VPIP depending on tables. Fold your SB in multiway pots a ton. I literally fold my sb over 80% of the time even when whole table limps in.
Really? So, you'd open something like T8 in the HJ? I understand the importance of position and everything, but it seems like this could throw a good tight-aggressive image out of whack. All of a sudden, your C-bets and bluffs become less effective. It seems like you'd become the guy who's always trying to steal pots rather than the TAG. I love cashing in on my tight image to steal some nice pots. It seems that might go away playing the "vast majority" of HJ, CO, and buttons. Plus, you're going to find yourself in some ugly spots if the blinds start playing back.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:11 AM   #16
3aces
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FPS used to kick in for me when I was card dead at a table full I of bad players. I would get frustrated being card dead and think I could outplay these guys after watching the hands being turned over at showdown.
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:42 AM   #17
srbrain
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

This question for me comes down to what is the structure I have to evaluate and make changes in my game. FPS is a tough problem we run into. I do a written warm up before every session. If FPS is an issue I am having trouble with I would list avoiding FPS as one of my session goals. After the session I do a written cool down and evaluate how I did. This brings an accountability for change. It's hard to write down "yep donked off a buy-in with FPS after being card dead" but thats how it changes for me.
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:00 PM   #18
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

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Originally Posted by jesse123 View Post
Really? ... I love cashing in on my tight image to steal some nice pots. It seems that might go away playing the "vast majority" of HJ, CO, and buttons. Plus, you're going to find yourself in some ugly spots if the blinds start playing back.
I think he meant that the vast majority of hands you play should be in position, not that the vast majority of hands dealt to you in position should be played.
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:04 PM   #19
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

Running bad should not trigger any changes to the way you play.

Table dynamics and all, that may indicate a change is +EV, but running bad just means you are temporarily on the wrong side of variance. Change nothing.
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:30 PM   #20
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Keep yourself entertained with music/phone/beer.
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:45 PM   #21
sungar78
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

Another thing that didn't get covered as much is to be brutally honest about it when you make a bad play (whether it was a good play or not, if it turned out bad at low stakes, it was probably not as good as it seemed.)
The problem w FPS is that mentally it ends up kind of being a no-lose situation, option A is that the play works and we feel great and a genius, option B is that it doesn't work, and we're still a genius, it's just that the other guy is an idiot.
It helped me to just start facing the music and realize how much I was giving away in a tough situation that I created for myself, as opposed to capitalizing on numerous easy situations.
This brings me to my last point, at low limits, if you're sitting at a table that isn't presenting NUMEROUS easy situation, it's time to switch. The grass (and therefore your wallet) IS greener somewhere else.
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:53 PM   #22
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Re: How to get rid of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty313 View Post
play the vast majoruty of your hands in HJ CO BU

unless its a super loose passive game, dont open limp
+10
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