Record every single time you bet big on the river wanting a call and whether you get a call vs fold. When you get some sorta non-meaningless sample size (i.e. "lately"), perhaps like 100 cases, evaluate the results (noting opponent skill in each case might help too). My guess is you'll find you're getting called more often than you think, especially against the poorer opponents (easily enough to be profitable). If not, the best solution might be to find a better game.

GknowswheremymoneycomesfromG

Make a medium-sized bet instead of a big bet.

I've found that if I have 140 effective behind on the river, making a 100 bet gets called way more often than going all-in, so if I think my opponent has a decent but not great hand that he might fold, the smaller bet is more profitable than shoving.

If you are OOP, you may be betting too often when checking is the better option.

I really disagree with this method. The majority of Villains are either calling a big bet or they ain't, and so the difference in size of the big bet is irrelevant.

If the opponent calls the big bet of $100 40% of the time, they'd have to call the $140 shove just 29% of the time to be as profitable. There simply ain't going to be that big of difference in calling frequency, imo. Yeah, you'll probably get called *slightly* more with the smaller bet, but it is highly likely it isn't nearly as EV long term.

ETA: Also, pretty sure I disagree with checking OOP in these cases too. Most Villain are far too likely to happily check behind hands that they will sometimes consider paying off a bet with.

GthisideaisstraightoutofHOCG

An all-in is scary when coming from someone with my image against the regs I play against. I know players who I am sure will call with TPGK for $75-100, but fold two pair to a shove that is only $140. Your math is technically right, but those percentages don't match up to the calling ranges that I am often up against.

My bet-sizing often targets the attitude of "I know I'm beat, but....pot odds" against players who don't understand pot odds.

^^^^ My guess would be that there is some selective memory going on with that, as with the OP's contention of "lately everyone has been folding".

Gcouldbewrong,butthat'smyguessG

Are you playing your cards face up? Are you betting too much on early streets? Do you think about their range when making large bets?

If you're thinking about all these things, and this just touches the surface of questions that you should be asking, why don't you try all in bluffs to steal the pot? Take notice of the villains who fold to your all ins or big bets along with the board texture. Simply mimic your nut hands with air to print money.

However don't bluff if you put your villain on a decent range or if they're calling stations because they'll end up calling! If you get caught bluffing take some time before you take another stab at the pot.

The caveat with poker, as you probably already know, is that just because you may have a monster that doesn't mean your villain has a great hand too. If you're folding out worse then you need to work on value betting. E.G. If you put your villain on a range of TP bad kicker and you have a boat, why would he ever stack off?

This.

What gg said. Also, I don't know your game, but imo $100 with $40 left behind looks way more valuey than just putting it in.

But if you think there is any chance villain could have a strong second-best hand that's what you target. If not, you're going to miss out on massive piles of chips. You can only stack people when you give them the opportunity to get stacked.

Elaborate? Does that really work?


Interesting.


I've heard this, it makes sense psychologically.


Never really tried that, sounds like it would work against the right opponent, I'm thinking someone who would make it personal, who would see it as a challenge.

This has happened to me more than once at the poker table, but after overshoving the pot with the ~nuts only to get called by a lol hand and the caller slinks away and while I'm raking in all his chips, someone at the table will say "wow, must be nice to have someone just give you all his chips like that". I'm always tempted to respond "He didn't give them to me. I asked for them", but I typically just bite my tongue.

GcluelessstackingnoobG

The proper betting strategy is different for different people with different table images against different opponents. In other words, it depends, but it doesn't depend on hand strength as much as some people think.

I am fairly certain that some people perceive me as someone who almost never bluffs and almost always has the nuts when I go all-in. I'm talking about the sort of opponents who will tank-call or tank-fold with the second- or third-nut flush if I shove the river, but will insta-call if I bet less (but never raise) and also call with other hands they fold against a shove. I'm pretty happy with having this sort of table image and I'm not interested in changing the table dynamic, but I do adjust against new opponents who don't know me.

Probably not, best to do nothing when all-in, and focus your energy on tailoring your riv sizing for each player given all the variables at work in a live game.
Adjust as best you can based on their prior actions with you/other players and of course if they tank fold bet less next time, if they snap call, bet more.

Heres an example of this from yesterday. Dude raises to $15 in EP. I call with Td9d in MP. One more caller.

Flop ($50) 8c7c3s. EP bets $20. I raise to $40. He calls heads up.
Turn ($130) Jh. He check/calls $85
River ($300) Kd. He checks. I put him all in for $320. He calls with 99.

He said "nice bet, I thought you were on a draw". LOL

River is probably a fold for V but it's close...V didn't play that hand too bad.

He calls flop with the best hand. Then he calls turn getting a great price (2.5-1) and he blocks your 10-9 combos.

Then he calls river getting a good price again (2-1 pot odds), he only needs to win 33% of the time so he can be correct in both calling and thinking he's beat the majority of the time.

From his perspective, you wouldn't play 99-1010 or J-X like this. That leaves only JJ (maybe), sets, 87s, 56s, and some busted flush draws.

Here we go with the "blockers" again. Getting stacked by the hand you "block" doesn't make it a cooler. It makes it a terrible call. The "blocked" hand is very likely to be what a guy has when there is significant action like this hand.

I might play a FD that includes a J or K exactly like this as well. I also might play a set or 2 pair like this sometimes.

Hes beating nothing but a bluff and there just arent enough 2/5 players bluffing every street like this to make this call profitable.

No villain played hand like a ******. River is not close. More than half the draws have him beat.

But that is LLSNL in a nut shell. Terrible bluffs, terrible calls.

Like I said, he should have folded river. It's a bad river call but not awful.

He played flop and turn fine.

Classic case of a villain putting you on a hand while holding a "monster" on the flop and never re-evaluating.

Could be tight villains or you could just be playing a bit too tight. Either way try looking for better spots to make your image more aggressive and your range a bit wider. Raise more in lp in spots where you can isolate in position. I'm generally pretty quiet and I get paid off and people go bananas against me sometimes.As long as you are not insanely tight you should be fine. As far as what to say if you have to say something I would go along the lines of, "I know you can't call with just X". But that really only works on the dum Dums who will probably call you anyway with tp +. People hate being told what they can and can't do so try to say something that plays off that. People play poker to make their own decisions. If you want to piss someone off tell them unapologetically what they should and shouldn't be doing.

Betting with less chips is good.

If you're a regular, being friendly and having people actually like you helps a lot.

Some people play much less poker than others and are more curious to see hands and aren't capable of folding in trivial situations. The people constantly folding top pair, we can use a nitty image to run them over with bluffs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good advice guys, thanks again. As far as recording these hands, I'm already recording loads of hands as advised in the Off-Table Analysis COTM and adding additional categories at this time would just be too much. Maybe when I switch up my categories once I have enough volume.

My biggest takeaway is that I probably do need to think more about lowering my bet sizing on turns and rivers if I give villains a weak range.

Not sure I agree with that. I prefer to attack the highest part of their range. Some will even call the big bets with the weak part of the range because peoples biggest mistakes are calling too much and thinking they are getting bluffed all the time. Also, you variance will go up if you start making smaller turn bets. That's a lose/lose in my opinion.

If you shoved the river every time you had the nuts, you probably wouldn't be too far off optimum (if at all).

GimoG

I mean pre 5/10, mines like 98% value, bc of what GG says below. At 5/10 it was prolly 90% lol which is an obvious leak.

Lol best answer itt

Greens are SUPER intimidating. 1 black isn't tho. Other chip tricks are to cut them out (so 4 stacks of $25 instead of 1 tall stack, to not say all in but instead the amount (so if you have $500 and V has $180, just throw in $200 or say $200))

Also build pots early with reds with your value hands. This way pots "look" huge by the river. So instead of 1 green chip pre, two green chip cbet, etc. you use reds and create a big tasty pile of plastic. (credit to Bart Hanson I believe?)

Spend about 1% of your time perfecting your chip trick game. (Not to be confused with "chip tricks" like the waterfall, spend about 10% of your time on that, super important)

Second best post itt

Second best post itt