$1-3 Vegas $500 buy-in game. .
H - 60's WM ($485)
V1-35ish WM from Chicago ($200). Called an all-in for $145 before with AJ.
V2 - 30 WM ($700), never seen before, 3 bet a couple times, showed QQ once.

V2 opens UTG+2 for $15, H calls on button with 5c5h, V1 3-bets to $45 from SB, V1 calls.

To call $30 with only $155 behind V1 was clearly not enough to setmine and 55 is hardly a powerhouse. But V2 and I have 150BB effective. Does the presence of V2 justify the call?

Depends. Calling a 3bet to setmine can be okay when we assume the 3bettor has a very strong hand and will likely put a lot of money in when we hit. Usually, a person raise/calling will not be as strong as a person 3betting, so their stack is not as important.

Here, the 3bettor is short and both players are known not to be overly nitty, so we're not likely to make enough money on our sets to justify calling with a weak hand.

There are cases where having a other villains in the hand can justify a call.

Hero should consider the extra money when looking at the odds. If the 3 bet was small and there are multiple callers or hero can be confident of one or more callers after it can improve the direct odds enough to justify a call. Taking the example you give above, if there was an additional caller before you the direct odds would be 5-1. That is good enough direct odds preflop you don't need to make much post flop and would be justified in set mining.

You can also sometimes call in these situations if you are targeting another deep stack. But you need a particularly favorable situation because the person most likely to be all in is the original raiser. So if your target is not the original raiser you need the target to be exceptionally deep and/or particularly bad. The best targets for this are stationary villain who won't easily give up top pair or an over pair. In the example you give you would want to be at least 200BB+ effective against V2.

At the 3-bet level, the likelihood of pairs out there is very high. Does the possibility of set over set influence your decision to setmine with a smaller pair?

I fold pre To the 3 bet given the info. Another player in going 4 ways to a flop I call. If i’m Sitting 250+ bigs deep and another player has me covered I call even if only 3 to the flop and one short stack present.

I do refer back to value charts for understanding just how crummy small pairs are and this is impart to getting beat by higher sets, bigger straights, higher pairs, higher flushes, etc. so yea, i’m Happy to throw them away pre, but if I knew I was right about everything I wouldn’t be here.

Both preflop decisions really depend on what you think of V2. If he's a complete idiot, the first call is likely fine. But he'd have to be an idiot of the highest order to justify the second call, especially since V1 will likely protect the majority of the pot postflop, so if V2 is getting in any real chips with you in a protected pot postflop he likely has your set beat (unless he's a moron).

Gfold,imoG

Check my logic here - and rounding the math to make it simple. You are calling $30 preflop to set mine w/ 55. That means you’re 8:1 to hit meaning you need to make an average of $240 when you do hit to justify the $30 call. There’s already $120 in the pot so you need to believe that on average when you hit you can get another $120 into the pot post flop for calling/folding to be neutral EV.

Generally in this spot I want more callers preflight because I have to get less in post flop when I hit to justify a call. Of course more players also means more opportunity to get over-set but thems the risks I guess.

To the OP’s point about $155 clearly not being enough to set mine I think you’re missing the dead money already I’m the pot. If you believe V1 stacks off every time you flop a set, even with $155 behind I believe the math says call, completely disregarding V2 post flop.

If I've mathed right, we're getting IO of 8.7:1 against the raiser and this is just *way* to thin. We can't assume 3better is going to stack off every single time (sometimes he has AK and whiffs, sometimes he has KK and sees an A high flop, etc.). Plus he sometimes set-over-sets us, and even when we get it in against his overpair on the flop he still sucks out upwards of 10% of the time (setting up on later streets or runner-runner straight/flush). We really need to make a lot off of V2 to make this profitable, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Fully agree that the assumptions listed aren’t realistic (V is never ‘always’ stacking off when we hit, over sets, etc...) and that 8.7 is way to thin. Was really just trying to make the point that the dead money in the pot substantially affects the calcs in a situation like this.

In game i’d Have to crunch the numbers before folding whereas if V had made it $75 there’d be no numbers crunching necessary.

It's always essential to have someone else to blame when we lose a big hand, in this case,set over set. Per Twitcheroo, I will blame V1 for not making it $75 and making the decision very easy to fold. Thanks for all the input, at the table in real time my math said I had just enough to call, but I didn't factor in set over set.

Not folding pairs closing action IP in 1/3 as long as you can make a ton from 1p hands post. It's not just set mining either here imo but that's another story, hell I might back raise and iso the short stack no matter how light it seems/looks. Also, factor in set over set exactly never preflop, worry about such anomalies post flop if you want.