$1/2 game at Borgata

V1: He is an elderly gentleman (50-60) and new to the table so no reads. This is his first rotation and he transferred from a broken game with $350(ish).

V2: Loose (pre) Standard (post) player who I’ve been playing with for hours. He would lean more towards the aggressive side but definitely not overly aggressive. He will stick around with draws only c/c’ing and stick around with 2nd pair for only one street. But all this info is not necessary for this hand.

Effective stacks:
Me: $900 (Button)
V1: $375 (Small Blind)
V2: $105 (Big Blind)

I have KK on the button. Two limpers to me and I make it $12. V1 looks at his cards and immediately makes it $30. V2 then ships for $105. Obviously folding is not an option but what is the best line to take with stack sizes? Do you overcall and see flop or just ship it pre?

Also if possible please provide me with insight on why you chose the line you would take. I can’t improve my play by reading just “Ship it”. Thanks

What are positions here? Are V1 and V2 in the blinds, or did one of them limp in this hand already?

Given stack sizes, I ship. Don't love shipping into an "elderly" gentleman (though if he's 50 that's hardly elderly). However, if he just flats we've got a $315 pot with less than a PSB behind, so basically never folding unless an ace flops. The betting is open to him anyway, and if he has AA he can ship over our call in any event. Not putting another $93 into the pot just to fold if V1 ships. So, I ship to force him to make a mistake with AK/QQ/JJ.

Sorry... edited OP to state this.

Just ship it.

Had too, obviously

I do think this is a ship basically all the time. The main reason is I think its harder to get stacks in a dry side after the flop comes down. If ace comes down it could ruin a perfectly good opportunity if he is holding JJ QQ or (obi) Ax.

Note that if this hand were head's up I would seriously consider flatting $30 here against an older unknown. His 3-bet range is pretty strong, and we have position on him. I don't entertain that option here though because V2 has reopened the betting and stacks are short with the all in at $105.

grunch.

I would tank a bit then smooth call and never folding if V1 ships it unless he gives off the most obvious strength tell of all time. if V1 calls we'll have an SPR of 1 and no trouble getting the rest in on pretty much any flop. Shipping here folds out a lot of the hands that we don't want to fold (TT-QQ, AK, AQs), and only gets action from AA and KK.

Smooth call, call and be upset about it if it gets re-raised.
If you shove here you are going to fold out too many hands that will call that you have crushed.

you think these hands fold when we ship pre? Also, how does AK fold now but not after a flop comes down?

IMO, the exact opposite happens. All we do is allow the hands that would call pre a chance to fold flop.

Seems easy enough to get it in. V1 isn't going to be getting out of line here, so calling doesn't accomplish much and looks stronger than shipping.

Also, not sure 50-60 makes someone "elderly" but I might just be getting old now.

I call. Reraising is so strong that I would expect a lot of worse hands that you want calling v2's raise of additional $75, fold.
If v1 calls $105, you know you almost always have the best hand preflop. If he shoves it's not horrible as your hand strength is somewhat hidden. As a result, his shoving range will also include hands you beat imo such as QQ, JJ, AK. If you shove-depending on villain, you'll get folds on those hands where as you want a call.


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A lot of people are folding TT and JJ here. Maybe even QQ. Some are folding AK here after this kind of action as well.

I Guess we just disagree here. TT yes, the others not so much.The question, I think, is how best to get stacks from a nutted range here. I just don't see why we would allow our action to be killed by over cards in a spot like this.

Call and shove any flop. I doubt V1 is calling a 5! ship with worse.

Guy has $30 invested, you really think he's putting in $375 preflop against 2 other players without the nuts? We definitely disagree. Most non-maniac villains are turbo mucking QQ, JJ and AK here.

Most of this may have already been said - but to me the key objective now is to get V1's stack in. And I think the best way to do that is with a smooth call. If you can pull off a reverse tell without being obvious - you want to look like this is a close decision coz you fear a reraise. (I usually just tank for 20 secs or so).

If V1 believes you have a hand that can call a 3bet he may be inclined to shove his QQ/JJ/AK. If you RAI - I don't think you'll get any calls except from AA/KK. All this might be transparent to V1 - but I'd do it anyway.

+1 if you shove pre you are only getting called by AA, maybe a crying call from a KK. Flat and see a flop. Seriously consider folding if V ships it but probably vomit and call.