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Old 10-02-2018, 01:10 PM   #1
YoungStro
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How do I make money with top set?

How the ef do I make money with top set?

For example, new recreational player sits at the table and opens the CO. I 3bet KK from the blinds. He calls. Flop: K85r

How do we get the money? Just keep barreling and hope he can't fold some marginal pair? Check and hope to induce something? I feel like unless he's super aggro, he's not going to try barrel you off what looks like QQ-TT after you check-call flop. How do you get the money??
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Old 10-02-2018, 04:44 PM   #2
HawkesDave
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

I only rarely check back the flop with value hands. One spot is when Iím heads-up and either in a pot-control or a deception situation, and this is the second.

Rainbow, relatively unconnected flop with top set is just usually a check spot. You could bet the flop on the smaller side but I only recommend that if your image is terrible and you look FOS.
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Old 10-02-2018, 04:53 PM   #3
wj94
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

Depends on stack size. Going to be hard for V to fold for something like 1/4-1/5 pot unless they have absolutely nothing, in which case you're just hoping they try bluffing you anyway.
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Old 10-02-2018, 05:05 PM   #4
Minatorr
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

I’d prob bet 1/4 pot here, decide whether to keep barreling or check based on turn cards and his postfop frequencies
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Old 10-02-2018, 05:05 PM   #5
shorn7
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungStro View Post
How the ef do I make money with top set?

For example, new recreational player sits at the table and opens the CO. I 3bet KK from the blinds. He calls. Flop: K85r

How do we get the money? Just keep barreling and hope he can't fold some marginal pair? Check and hope to induce something? I feel like unless he's super aggro, he's not going to try barrel you off what looks like QQ-TT after you check-call flop. How do you get the money??
Well on that specific flop, you can probably check one street as you fear really no turn cards. Kind of like a delayed c-bet so it makes it look like you are afraid the King and maybe he makes a move on you. But most of the time, just lead. Sizing is important too...size down a bit to try and induce more calls.

We have to remember that in order to stack anyone reasonably competent, they have to have a very good second best hand or big draw. Sometimes they don't and that is just the way it goes.
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Old 10-02-2018, 05:18 PM   #6
football0020
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

Versus a thinking reg or a maniac I'd bet like 1/3 here expecting the thinking reg to continue because he understands c-betting, and expecting the maniac to continue because he's a maniac.

Versus the player type you described, I'm okay with checking flop since they are usually fit or fold type players and it's hard for them to hit this flop.
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Old 10-02-2018, 06:18 PM   #7
Scientist
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

What are you doing with AJs AQs on this flop?

What are you doing with AK?
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Old 10-02-2018, 06:53 PM   #8
donkatruck
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

Bet small flop (1/2 pot) - check turn - bet pot+ a little river

If he's folding to 1/2 pot bet on the flop you're not getting money out of him. The bet-check-bet line looks bluffy on the river.
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:52 PM   #9
apricotjello
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

i really like checking here for all the reasons other posters mentioned, but there are certain dynamics in live games where betting between 20-33% pot is better (especially vs maniacs or if iíve seen someone raise flop cbets light before)
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:57 PM   #10
setintostraight
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

Keep in mind, you're going to make less money OOP than you would in position.

On a rainbow flop, it's ok to check 1 street, however in a 3-bet pot, the K should hit both of your ranges pretty hard.

Also depends on opponent. If he's a maniac, we can c/c twice and c/r on the river to let him value own himself. Against ABC opponent, it's either bet/bet/bet or c/b/b.
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Old 10-02-2018, 11:33 PM   #11
johnnyBuz
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

by coolering people and fading draws
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Old 10-03-2018, 01:49 AM   #12
YoungStro
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by football0020 View Post
Versus a thinking reg or a maniac I'd bet like 1/3 here expecting the thinking reg to continue because he understands c-betting, and expecting the maniac to continue because he's a maniac.

Versus the player type you described, I'm okay with checking flop since they are usually fit or fold type players and it's hard for them to hit this flop.
Think you're right about the reg and maniac. I'm going back and forth on whether I like checking or 1/5-1/4 pot leading vs. a guy like this. Seems pretty split in the comments.

I think it'll depend on his range. If he's calling with any suited connectors, checking can give him some rope to try something. But if he's only calling with like AJ+, 88+, it's better to make a small lead because he'll check back those hands. Being in the dark about his calling range, I think it's gotta be better to check since inducing something could pay handsomely, even if it's just a flop bet you wouldn't have gotten, while the other only earns you a touch more.
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:25 PM   #13
Havick
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

This is definitely a check imo. Because it's difficult for him to have a K to continue.
With 55 and 88 I'm betting like 1/4 to 1/2 close to always.
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:53 PM   #14
monikrazy
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

Cbet 30-40% psb

You need to play your range, not your hand and hero should cbet this board most of the time after 3! Preflop
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Old 10-17-2018, 01:21 AM   #15
Regurge
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

AGAinst a muppet bet 1/4-1/3

Against a elit3 pr0 check back to balance the weak part of our check back range
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:05 AM   #16
Chunkamunk
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scientist View Post
What are you doing with AJs AQs on this flop?

What are you doing with AK?
Betting 1/2 pot, just as we should be doing here about 40% of the time.

In this situation, it's all read dependent on our opponent. Without a read, I assume they suck and I'm betting hoping they try to peel some excuse to make another call OTT.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:39 AM   #17
+AV
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Re: How do I make money with top set?

To be honest you aren't gonna be getting 3 streets outta V unless its a cooler or a total fish. I would say checking or betting here is fine but I would bet small if you do elect to bet. On higher and more dynamic boards you bet bigger and force V's to make tough decisions on the turn as to whether or not they're committing their stack. on this board 1/3 pot sized bet is fine, any more and you are making it an easy fold for V. for that price he can call with an Ax backdoor flush or maybe even QQ- minus that thinks youre c-betting often given your range advantage.


A lot to digest but long story short, bet size matters, and except the fact that when you have the board smashed like this on the flop you are likely not getting paid off.
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