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Old 11-08-2018, 02:39 PM   #1
josofo
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hit great drawing turn card oop what do

its late at night we are playing 4-5 handed.

somehow we are out of position i forget how

we have k-9 raise it up to 6 dollars we get 1 caller.

flop 10-6-3:

i bet 10 he calls

turn j

i bet 25

he raises to 50

he has 111 behind after the 50.

player tendency he actually got me in some pots going for thin value i 3 bet him earlier tonight and on a q-j-4-6-q board he bet j-10 for value turn and river. he is also capable of bluffing and folding hands. (i made the nuts vs him a few times and he folded)


so anyway back to the hand

he might be raising most 10 here as a see where i am at/protection raise thinking i might just be double barreling too much in this spot and just be bluffing. he might have j-10 i guess. he could have a lot of nut hands because i think he would play a lot of hands. i honestly am not to sure what he is doing this with.

(but for sure this isn't a he has a big hand 100 percent of the time)
so is the play here to shove or just call and hope to hit?

the problem with raising here is i don't really know how much of his turn checkrange i am getting him to fold, i mean if he is doing this with some air (and all his 10s) we will get some folds, but is he going to fold ace 10 here? i don't know? i doubt he is folding jack.

I also thought if i call and hit this is good chance i am getting paid off because well he check raised turn. so if i just call a lot of times i get paid off anyway and if i miss i can mainly check fold.

anyway i went for the call

river smashes queen

i move in and he folds after some thought.

i guess i could of checked river and hoped that he continued bluffing or went for thin value again or legit value again.

Last edited by josofo; 11-08-2018 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:34 AM   #2
Dream Crusher
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Re: hit great drawing turn card oop what do

It seems you are just clicking buttons without knowing what you're doing but good luck trying to get a player whose range you aren't clear about to fold the turn for less than pot after he raised. This is a standard call on the turn.
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:57 AM   #3
ES2
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Re: hit great drawing turn card oop what do

I think this is one where it doesn't matter all that much.

I would sort of expect his check minraise on such a wet board to be weak. Usually, a top 2 type hand would be afraid to see a river and face a tough decision on any black card. I'd sort of expect him to have a draw or, perhaps just a 10, like you said.

Generally, however, not a lot of people are check/raise folding for these amounts. Generally, a 3b bluff on the turn is not going to work.

However, you say he could be getting cute and you have a really great draw, so I think shoving would be fine here, and probably best. But calling is OK.

I make more small bets than most, but I think the river is a shove, since you are backdoor. On top of that, a few of his hands are helped by the river.
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Old 11-09-2018, 07:30 AM   #4
hyperknit
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Re: hit great drawing turn card oop what do

I really don’t like shoving the turn. It’s just illogical.
Either A) this player is the type to fold a made hand here, or B) he generally won’t fold a made hand.
In case A I would rather bluff raise with a hand that has less equity, like a naked straight draw or weak flush draw. No need to waste a hand with so much equity (reminds me of 3betting AQ pre vs players who play 4bet/fold)
In case B I would rather call here for obvious reasons...

also we’re just getting really good odds on a call here so we should be calling with most of our range.

Also I think your read that he’s raising a naked Ten here is quite bizarre since almost no one does that but ok
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:01 PM   #5
Ragequit99
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Re: hit great drawing turn card oop what do

Grunch

You've got K-high so almost certainly behind here.

V looks pretty pot committed so you have very little fold equity.

You likely have 9 clean flush outs and certainly 3 clean straight outs. Because villain can go thin for value you may also have 3 pair outs.

Pot on turn is 36+25+50= $111
Call is $25
Required equity = 25/(111+25)=18%

Even if he only has sets here you have 23% equity.

Since you're getting the right direct odds to draw it's an easy call/evaluate river.
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:09 PM   #6
Ragequit99
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Re: hit great drawing turn card oop what do

Reading rest of OP and others replies...

Agree no point raising.

Agree villain doesn't have lots of TX/JX that raise here even with the read he thin value raises. Really only makes sense if he's got JXss - and that's not a lot of combos.

As played to river I think your bet/call turn, donk-shove river looks incredibly strong PLUS the Qc completes flushes, gutshots AND puts an overcard to his JX on board.

V definitely won't bet this river with sets- so you just have to accept you aren't getting much value here and go for a tiny bet that he sigh/calls "because odds" or misreads as a blocking bet and snapcalls thinking he's still good.
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:29 PM   #7
Minatorr
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Re: hit great drawing turn card oop what do

flop turn good

wouldn't jam over turn bet, we are probably not folding much of his range

river is a check or small blocker bet to induce or get a sigh call, donk jamming is probably nutworst option
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:33 AM   #8
hyperknit
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Re: hit great drawing turn card oop what do

Ok ok leading the river big is certainly correct. It keeps bluffs in our range.
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:30 AM   #9
Ragequit99
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Re: hit great drawing turn card oop what do

^ certainly correct - if we want to be balanced rather than exploitative vs this player in this spot. Maybe we do, maybe we don't, we can't know given limited info on villain. I guess if he's thin value betting he could be a good thinking player (against whom we want to be balanced) but he could also just be loose and over aggressive (against whom we want to exploit).
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