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Old 03-13-2019, 04:42 PM   #1
djevans
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Heros best play vs Squeeze

2/5 $1000 cap

Hero $1000 and every one else covers

Hero is dealt JT in UTG +2 and goes $15
Villain 1 passive calls mid position
Villain 2 tag reg calls CO
Villain 3 Good reg goes $95 in BB (I've seen him do this with 78s and pocket pairs)

Hero??

I was thinking of min clicking it back to like $190~, even if it doesn't work it will set up for something in the future since we play together a lot.

I don't mind folding or calling.

I could also fold pre at a tougher table but no one likes a nit and JTs is lovely.
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Old 03-13-2019, 04:52 PM   #2
Javanewt
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

JT suited plays well multi-way, so I'd flat and hope the others come along. I'd only raise if I thought I had fold equity, and I'd raise what I would w/ a big hand.

I only flat if I am comfortable being OOP to V1 and V2. If not, just fold.
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Old 03-13-2019, 04:52 PM   #3
XtraScratch8
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

Against a good reg I would just lay this down.
What I really want to know is what happened in the last thread you posted, if you don’t mind posting results? I’m still curious.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:37 PM   #4
QuadJ
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

Fold is your best plan. If this is a regular problem then you will have to tighten up your opening range so you don't have as many hands that can be squeezed.

The problem with flatting is there will be $200+ in the pot so SPR will be < 5. You just won't get a good enough flop often enough to make money.

If you think villain is squeezing light a lot then the occasional reraise to $250 is workable. Even if villain could be light don't do this very often, this is more bluff then value and you will get unbalanced quickly. You don't want to go small here, you want to set a size that says you plan to shove any non-terrible flop. You may get him to fold some AK/99 type hands that are ahead of you right now.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:43 PM   #5
Playbig2000
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

What is the "good regs" 3bet range? If u dont kno snap fold

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Old 03-13-2019, 07:08 PM   #6
Minatorr
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

Fold.

4b pre is spew bc you block a gazillion of his bluff hands and have no blockers to his value hands.

Fold >>>>>>> 4b >>> call
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:47 PM   #7
djevans
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

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Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
Fold.

4b pre is spew bc you block a gazillion of his bluff hands and have no blockers to his value hands.

Fold >>>>>>> 4b >>> call
So 4bet hands like KQo AJo AQo AK+??


What would you do with JQs or KQs and AQs or (TT and JJ)?
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:53 PM   #8
QuadJ
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

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Originally Posted by Playbig2000 View Post
What is the "good regs" 3bet range? If u dont kno snap fold
If villain is a good reg you also need to really think about his being a blind. A good regular should have very different ranges from the button and from a blind. Even if he is regularly laggy and likes to squeeze he many not have many bluff squeezes from the blinds.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:11 PM   #9
Avaritia
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

Fold if you are playing well.
Call if you are tilted.
4bet to $240 if you are playing exceptionally well, or are exceptionally tilted.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:16 PM   #10
Minatorr
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

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Originally Posted by djevans View Post
So 4bet hands like KQo AJo AQo AK+??


What would you do with JQs or KQs and AQs or (TT and JJ)?
I wouldn't open KQo UTG + 2, and probably would skip AJo if there's a spewy reg in the blinds. Plus AJo from UTG + 2 is extremely marginal, hovering around BE or super slightly +EV at best.

AQo can consider 4-betting but probably don't want to use all 16 combos/over do it. AK def 4b since we dont wanna go 10-way to the flop.

i just fold QJs/KQs, call AQs and TT/JJ. Yeah he squeezes/3b a lot but it's probably a lot tighter when he squeezes BB vs UTG +2 open than his 3b range for BTN vs CO, blinds vs LP, BTN/CO vs MP & EP, etc.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:03 PM   #11
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

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Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
Yeah he squeezes/3b a lot but it's probably a lot tighter when he squeezes BB vs UTG +2 open than his 3b range for BTN vs CO, blinds vs LP, BTN/CO vs MP & EP, etc.
I also think this is true, and thus I'd fold. His 3b sizing seems standard, 4x for oop + each caller, so yeah he's done this before.

If he thinks you're much wider than a typical +2 open range, perhaps I could get on board with a call/4b, but that's a big "perhaps".
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:46 PM   #12
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

Surprised no one has mentioned the pf sizing. It's bad. You shouldn't have this "pot builder" raise size. Stick to one size for your entire range. This deep, and in DC area games, it should be at least 5x from EP.

As played, if you're always folding JTs in this spot you're probably not defending enough in position, especially given that villain might just be attacking your weak open. JTs has a ton of playability and is good multiway if you happen to get callers behind you.

Defending by calling is better than 4betting with this hand for reasons stated by others (playability, lack of blockers, in position, etc).
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:58 PM   #13
djevans
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

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Originally Posted by trob888 View Post
Surprised no one has mentioned the pf sizing. It's bad. You shouldn't have this "pot builder" raise size. Stick to one size for your entire range. This deep, and in DC area games, it should be at least 5x from EP.

As played, if you're always folding JTs in this spot you're probably not defending enough in position, especially given that villain might just be attacking your weak open. JTs has a ton of playability and is good multiway if you happen to get callers behind you.

Defending by calling is better than 4betting with this hand for reasons stated by others (playability, lack of blockers, in position, etc).
They probably don't play here, but it also depends who is at your table. Raising 5x early position at a table with capable 3 betters behind you is a disaster.

So if I did 5x, and got 3 callers, and he 3bets to $150 are we still defending?
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:04 PM   #14
Avaritia
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

Raise size is fine for this exact reason.

There is already a very, very long thread on this subject where no one agrees.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:32 PM   #15
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

Yeah, I also think $15 here is totally fine and I strongly disagree with being so rigid in opening sizes. It doesn’t make any sense to me why people think that’s optimal.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:18 PM   #16
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

I would probably fold 67% and call 33%. You sometimes need to defend your whole early position raising range, otherwise you risk opponent not respecting your raises. Call more often if you think Vs will call behind you. Then you have a better chance at winning a big pot when you make a big hand.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:27 PM   #17
Minatorr
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

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Originally Posted by fightingillini View Post
I would probably fold 67% and call 33%. You sometimes need to defend your whole early position raising range, otherwise you risk opponent not respecting your raises. Call more often if you think Vs will call behind you. Then you have a better chance at winning a big pot when you make a big hand.
This is wrong in so many ways. Who cares if he doesnt respect our raises? Maniacs dont respect our raises; it doesnt mean we start calling with J8o IP btn open vs maniac 3b from the BB, which is what you imply by sometimes having to defend full range in order for them to respect our raise. Making -EV plays just so he can “respect our raises” is the wrong way to approach it. We’re basing our decisions off EV not what our opponent feels about us.

Never folding in some spot is 99% of the time a huge leak. Not to mention the burden of defending vs the 3b also falls onto the callers, so it literally makes zero sense for you to defend full range here. Take a look at minimum defense frequency.

If you really want someone to respect your raises, which has some metagame value/EV purposes, be a spewtard and 4b when you think they’re squeezing light. It’ll make them think twice before they 3b you again. Calling and playing mostly fit-fold post isnt. Calling is extremely weak, esp when doing so is going to invite other donks behind to call A10s/AJs/KJs/KQs which dominate J10s.

Last edited by Minatorr; 03-14-2019 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:30 PM   #18
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Re: Heros best play vs Squeeze

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Fold if you are playing well.
Call if you are tilted.
4bet to $240 if you are playing exceptionally well, or are exceptionally tilted.
Poty?
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