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Old 01-12-2020, 04:44 PM   #1
luz4ggro
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Question Hero call against a river shove?

Hero (820): 27 LAG player. Really agressive image.Winning player in this room
V1 (1200): 35 gambler who seems to have a lot of money. Has been less than 30 minutes in the table and has been trying to steal some pots in weak positions. Seems as a decent player going to the gambling side.

OTH
Blinds 5-5
Hero has 76 and raises to 20 on HJ. V1 raises to 80 on the button. I decide to call.

Flop(190): 872

Hero checks, and villains bets out 100. I decide to flat call because I have some backdoor possiblities and he may be c-betting with AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, etc...

Turn (390): 3 Hero checks and villain bets out 150. I still think he has missed his hand and s trying to push me out, or he may have a flush draw. But I really doubt he has a pair in the hand

River (690): 9 Hero checks and villain goes all in. So it's 490

I really think he missed everything and is making a 3 barrel bluff. Do you think we can call him off with a 7?
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Old 01-12-2020, 04:46 PM   #2
sdfsgf
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

Can you elaborate why you think he missed his hand? Just because there were two clubs on the flop?
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Old 01-12-2020, 04:51 PM   #3
luz4ggro
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdfsgf View Post
Can you elaborate why you think he missed his hand? Just because there were two clubs on the flop?
It was his first 3 bet in the session. He is repping an overpair or AK, AQ, KQ, KJ. It really seems that I am the one with the flush draw and I missed, but why would he bet so hard on the river with overpairs when I may have rivered 2 pair or a straight? Doesn't really make sense
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:16 PM   #4
sixsevenoff
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

Snap fold vs 3 bet sizing. AP, I fold the turn; you can make an argument for folding the flop as well. Even gambley players have super narrow 3 bet ranges pre, until proven otherwise.
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:22 PM   #5
Viral25
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

Fold turn. None of our backdoors materialised, we might literally have the worst hand in our range, almost every river card is bad for us, and villain has shown strength all through the hand.

I am puzzled that you think that because villain hasn't 3bet before he is MORE likely to have A high or overcards??
Seems to me you are expecting intelligence and/or a well thought out strategy from villain, when there is no sign of either.
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:31 PM   #6
Mr Spyutastic
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

I would've CR the flop. Also sometimes 4bet pf.
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:34 PM   #7
sixsevenoff
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

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Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic View Post
I would've CR the flop. Also sometimes 4bet pf.
Why would you x-r the flop? I really don't think we need balance here, and we're presumably against a narrow range (going off of the population)
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:41 PM   #8
Mr Spyutastic
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsevenoff View Post
Why would you x-r the flop? I really don't think we need balance here, and we're presumably against a narrow range (going off of the population)
A gambly guy 3betting from the button vs a LP open? Nah.

I'm CRing for protection and there are a lot of good turn cards we can continue with. Clear out all his junk. He has so much JT, QJ, KQ, KJ, AJ AT, AQ, AK, A5s.

You gotta clear this out.
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:43 PM   #9
kashabrown
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic View Post
I would've CR the flop. Also sometimes 4bet pf.
4-betting pre would be my play in my $2/$5 game most of the time, or folding. Mostly folding.

AP, never would have made it to the river, but I would fold.

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Old 01-12-2020, 06:45 PM   #10
sixsevenoff
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic View Post
A gambly guy 3betting from the button vs a LP open? Nah.

I'm CRing for protection and there are a lot of good turn cards we can continue with. Clear out all his junk. He has so much JT, QJ, KQ, KJ, AJ AT, AQ, AK, A5s.

You gotta clear this out.
I'm yet to see an influx of gambly players 3 betting light in my games, even BTN vs LP.
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:59 PM   #11
Mr Spyutastic
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsevenoff View Post
I'm yet to see an influx of gambly players 3 betting light in my games, even BTN vs LP.
Going off of OP's description...
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Old 01-12-2020, 07:22 PM   #12
ggodd
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

Crystal clear fold pre. I can get behind a 4-bet maybe 1/10 times with this hand.

As played I can't think of many worse hands you could arrive at this river with, so fold.
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Old 01-12-2020, 08:29 PM   #13
Spanishmoon
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

You lose the most money when gambler Vs have actual hands otb. Admittedly it doesn’t happen often but when it does you’re in big trouble. With this guy on the BTN it’s a great spot to limp with a playable multi-way hand. I’d rather 4b this guy oop with the actual goods.
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Old 01-12-2020, 11:30 PM   #14
JackTenSuitedSS
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

I think there are better spots pre against gambly villain, I think we need to find a fold pre, especially OOP. AP, don’t hate a call on the flop, wouldn’t mind a C/R.

I think the mistake is on the turn, in terms of the most profitable play it’s close between a fold or jam. Call OOP looses money. If villain has all flush draws and gambles we get a call and we are massive favorites. If villain has an OP we at least have outs and put him in a bad spot.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:24 AM   #15
luz4ggro
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

So no one think villain is capable of 3 barreling bluff with a missed flush draw or high cards? I think that an overpair (what he repped first) will definitely not shove the river for value.

Anyways, here is the end of the hand:

Spoiler:
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:22 PM   #16
sdfsgf
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

Quote:
Originally Posted by luz4ggro View Post
So no one think villain is capable of 3 barreling bluff with a missed flush draw or high cards? I think that an overpair (what he repped first) will definitely not shove the river for value.

Anyways, here is the end of the hand:

Spoiler:

I figured this was a brag post. But I think you’re asking the wrong question. You shouldn’t decide to call based on whether the opponent is *capable* of 3 barreling. You should decide to call if you think they’re doing it *at least 42% of the time* in this spot.
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Old 01-13-2020, 06:45 PM   #17
Mr Spyutastic
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

Still think the best line is 4betpf and if you just called to CR the flop.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:11 AM   #18
luz4ggro
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdfsgf View Post
I figured this was a brag post. But I think you’re asking the wrong question. You shouldn’t decide to call based on whether the opponent is *capable* of 3 barreling. You should decide to call if you think they’re doing it *at least 42% of the time* in this spot.
Not really bragging. I think that JJ+ would check this river. Also if he has something like 10-9, J-9 he wouldn't really shove the river. I think the turn call is not that good because I missed my backdoors but the river call is not really impossible that he is bluffing
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:54 AM   #19
RoadtoPro
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

Grunch

Well played. Villain would size up on flop & turn vs you if he had a strong hand.

Great run out, snap calling river
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:00 AM   #20
RoadtoPro
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Re: Hero call against a river shove?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdfsgf View Post
I figured this was a brag post. But I think you’re asking the wrong question. You shouldn’t decide to call based on whether the opponent is *capable* of 3 barreling. You should decide to call if you think they’re doing it *at least 42% of the time* in this spot.
Where did this number come from? We only need to be good here <30% of the time.

All his overs missed and he likely would have bet larger on the flop/turn if he had something good.
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