Hero and villain have zero history. Villain has been talking strategy with a reg hero has previous hand history with.

Villain is a younger clean cut white gent and we are both deep Villain covers. (normally I’d buy in for more to cover all villains at the table but because he’s new I decided to play a little lighter to give myself some wiggle room but we are still both deep.

Villain UTG $3000
Hero BTN: $1700

Villain opens to $20 UTG, (Villain has been opening much larger than the rest of the table usually 20-25 while the rest of the table has been opening 12-15)

1 caller from MP

Hero looks down at AKss and 3bets to $125 on the BTN. Villain calls, MP folds.

(Pot $279)

Flop Kh, 2s 8h

Villain checks, Hero bets $100.

Villain raises to $350

Hero?

damn that kind of sucks. i think 0% chance I'm folding, especially with backdoor spades and that he can have some heart draws. unlikely he opened 22 UTG and called a 3! but not impossible, K8 also should be non-existent, i think KK should 4! pre, only really worried about 88 and maybe some AA that just flatted. could also be going against the same hand free-rolling with our spades. I think its a straight forward call hoping we hit a spade and have an easier call on the turn. It's tempting to re-raise, but I think it's probably the wrong idea. id wonder if engines maybe do it sometimes, but AsKs has more playability on spade turns, I'd rather consider raising AcKc/AdKd sometimes, but I wonder if we'd be raising enough with other value on this board, i'd be tempted to flat KK and maybe just raise 88 for value and maybe AA no heart. Its supposed to be a good board for us, x/r seems strong but I'm calling at least one.

Does the hand change at all if we flop an Ace instead of a king? We can then discount AA correct?

Brutal spot. I’m assuming a 1/3 game. Comes down to if villain would call a 3 bet that large with 88. Ran this hand through the solver as played including 88 at the bottom of villains calling range pre and our equity when villain check raises is 46%. Solver says raise or fold and it’s never just calling.

Yes 1/3. The game plays that people can buy in for whatever is current max stack across all tables playing that format. In this case one person has 4500 so you could buy in for that amount. Most do so you get 9-30k on the table at a time for 1/3

That’s same as my 1/3 game. Solver pretty much says it’s 50/50 Thinking about the hand more and no information on the villain I’m probably just mucking and getting him later when I have more information on him. Not many players in my room at 1/3 have 125bb bluff raises in them.

Totally unrelated to the hand, would you say playing enough in this kind of format with skilled players you can justify (if rolled properly) for shot taking at your traditional 5/10?

I dont think we can ever fold here unless we are dealing with a passive nit. We unblock hearts and have backdoor equity.

We can heavily discount AA. Vs range is likely hh/AK/88. We call IP and make decisions focused on pot controlling. We have to make sure we protect this range by not having a 3bet on the flop.

Def not an easy spot when facing more aggression later...

If you are playing this deep all the time then this looks more like a hybrid 2/5/T. I think you are preparing yourself the best way possible for the bigger stakes.

This is exactly where my head was at in the hand. Always appreciate the feedback from you.

Awesome. Then I’ll keep playing this game/ similar ones.

Would you mind digging a little deeper into this statement?

When you say protect this range by not having a 3bet OTF…

IE if we 3bet we cap his range and ours to the top of it if we get a response? But by not betting (3betting it) it keeps his semi-bluffs in?

It’s not so much abt keeping his semi bluffs in, it’s more like: he’s saying he has a set or a flush draw here. If we call with tptk instead of reraising then we are capping our range and become easy to play against. To simplify things and protect our range when we flat, we add all the strongest hands KK/88 as well as our flush draws.

This is not a spot I have studied but intuitively this is a very tight configuration, very deep, which can create a very narrow range. As a result, we wanna make sure we are balanced.

OTTH:

Hero calls.

Thoughts: agreed with everything that’s been said so far with those that say it’s a 50/50 call and to the why. If I was behind I did have the Back door draw and could outdraw them. Lastly, I purposefully didn’t chip up so that if I did get into a weird spot I was comfortable navigating the current stack size.

Turn 6s

Villain checks. Hero checks back.

Thoughts: putting in a bet here I’m only getting called by hands that beat me, and feel like we can pot control to the river. It would also suck to put in a raise here and get blown off what little equity we have here but am open to feedback.

Feedback OTT? If I shouldn’t post my own thoughts I can omit them for the future to help not influence commentary.

Actually, I think 1/3 600BB deep is tougher than 5/10 200BB deep, at least game wise, villains might be easier to play against.

Here for example you have top pair top kicker in as favorable board you can hope for AK and you are shitting your pants because you are so deep.

interesting to hear solver is never calling with AK here, i assume it's because solver knows this is a great board for pre flop raiser, and the caller should have very few raises here, so it shows massive strength. my feeling is that V might have a few more x/r's than solver deems appropriate so calling probably isn't as bad. if its truly a raise or fold spot then AsKs is probably the best one to be going with, but solver considers it a bluff.

I think I prefer what double K was suggesting, not having raises here and calling with sets FD's and this sort of hand.

not sure how flopping an A would change things, yes he would have less AA, and its also an even better board for our range, but the x/r would still be very strong. If it were also the Ah for instance this would get rid of their NFD semi-bluffs so it might be even worse. I probably have PTSD from looking up v's who check raise an A-high board, they seem to be always hoping you have AK, entirely V dependent i suppose, but I'm usually calling at least one, and gonna force them to put in lots of barrels if they are bluffing so when I do have a set they are getting punished.

AP I'm feeling so much better getting a spade and facing a check. 88 should be continuing to bet here. He could be trying to trap you with another x/r which would be infuriating. getting blown of our equity now would be tragic.
I'm still very much tempted to bet/fold this and possibly even bet/call. if he trapped me with 88 so be it. I wan't to build a pot vs. AK if we are free rolling, and I want to charge his FD's. If he can x/jam his FD's here I think I'm gonna bet and look him up now.

If he calls the turn and donks the river, then I probably hate him. otherwise I'm most likely checking back river incase he has AA. Won't try to bluff him off the chop.

Turn. 88 much less likely. KK also not likely

His hands in order of likelihood are AK, hh, AA.

Someone said discount AA. At 1/3 Ive seen more people lose money to people who dont do “what they should preflop” with AA and KK. Oh you didnt three bet, i thought my 1010 was good for 120bb three streets on 223 rainbow flop.

V check makes me want to bet/fold the turn

For those of you saying bet/fold bet/call

With $979 in the middle 500/600?

I’ll admit in game the check made me think MUTB but also have to second Larry’s statement about AA being played “wrong” in game.

Interesting turn spot

He looks capped here with two flush draws out there…feels like his strongest hands want to jam. But….what is your image in his eyes. Does he know you are pretty aggro and will stab this turn always? If that’s the case then I like the check back. If he has no info on you, I would bet 300 and call it off as we wanna charge draws and AK. Fold h rivers if he calls turn and jams river

980$ in the middle, and you have 1225$ left.

yeah i think 300-400, he's getting direct odds to hit a flush if you bet 300$. i'd probably go 400$

But it’s even tougher to fold rivers now, 800 into 1800

Villain was talking with reg who I’ve got a ton of hand history with. There’s a high high chance that he said I’m incredibly agro as he’s given me similar info on players that just sat down. FYI he’s sticky, “he’s stationy” “good luck getting your chips back he only plays the top of his range. Granted he OFFERED up this info. I don’t talk strategy anymore with anyone. With him so freely giving that info and the two of them openly talking strategy when I sat down, this is very much a good thought.

Thats true, i don't mind either way. Just my preference I guess. Would just prefer not giving him the right price to draw out. Even if it can be a slightly tougher spot on river.

What would V do with KQs or KJs? How about QJhh or A2hh? What about complete air? He is young, IMO this is a great spot you are in, call the flop, check the turn, and call or vbet if checked to on the river. I think you are playing this hand well, so far.

We have no reads other than the description I’ve given regarding appearance, age and bet sizing. This is the first we’ve played together. Given the fact that the reg next to him I’ve got a ton of hand history with and they know one another, I can give him credit for being a good player or at least a better reg for the game.

Some considerations:
- By checking the turn, what is your plan if villain a) checks the river, b) bets the river?
- If we bet, are we planning to bet/fold? If it goes bet/call, then do we check behind or bet river?

I'm finding this to be a case of what do we lose to given villain's line, but also what worse hands will call that took this line.

A different way I'm trying to think about this hand: If we're not betting AK, then what are we ever betting. It would be nice to have some value hands here to balance any FDs we have. I'm not sure this is a good enough reason to bet, but in theory it feels like we should be. In game I'd probably check back for pot control.

Given how the hands been played so far I will either , call a safe River bet or when checked to the only line I question is the bet/call. You make some good points on questions I should be asking myself in game.