Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-22-2016, 06:42 PM   #1
xWindsor
newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 16
Hero call?

Live 1/3 Villian is fairly loose but does very dumb stuff. Previous hand hero($700) has 55 in HJ and raises to 15, Villian($450)on the button raises to 40, big blind goes all in for 40 hero calls. Flop: AQ10 2 hearts hero checks, Villian bets 55, hero folds. Villian shows 42 off suit big blind shows pocket 10's.

Hand in question:
Hero As10s UTG +2 raises to 15, Villian in the CO calls.
Flop:6s7s6d hero checks villain checks
Turn: 7d hero checks, Villian checks
River : 4c hero bets 25, Villian raises to 150
Hero?
xWindsor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 07:04 PM   #2
browni3141
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Florida
Posts: 4,811
Re: Hero call?

I would call. Villain seems like he has no clue what he's doing. This is random spew way more often than a FH, I think. He might have a straight sometimes too, or an A trying to get you off a chop.

Call and don't expect to see a hand that makes sense.
browni3141 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 07:38 PM   #3
javi
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,457
Re: Hero call?

not sure why you bet the river. Fold, it's not even worth it. Fish love to trap, he could easily be slowplaying desperately hoping that you bet, and when you did he just goes for some balls out ridiculous move hoping to tilt you in to calling since you both played this hand like a fish.
javi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 08:06 PM   #4
xWindsor
newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 16
Re: Hero call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by javi View Post
not sure why you bet the river. Fold, it's not even worth it. Fish love to trap, he could easily be slowplaying desperately hoping that you bet, and when you did he just goes for some balls out ridiculous move hoping to tilt you in to calling since you both played this hand like a fish.
bet river for value because he might play back at me or call with king high or maybe even low pocket pairs that he didn't realize we're counterfeited. Was surprised at how big he raised river though, might make a call easier?
xWindsor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 08:19 PM   #5
ASLheadwalk
grinder
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Long Branch, NJ
Posts: 406
Re: Hero call?

Yea, call and expect a chop.

Any over pair to the board would have bet by now.
ASLheadwalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 08:26 PM   #6
Evoxgsr96
self-banned
 
Evoxgsr96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Northern Lights
Posts: 2,137
Re: Hero call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by javi View Post
not sure why you bet the river. Fold, it's not even worth it. Fish love to trap, he could easily be slowplaying desperately hoping that you bet, and when you did he just goes for some balls out ridiculous move hoping to tilt you in to calling since you both played this hand like a fish.
+1 to this

Why the hell are we even hero-calling, how are we even being exploited here... um why would you bet the river as well...?

Also it looks like he was to lazy to bet the flop and turn with his monster now he expects to get paid more in a last ditch effort lol

Pretty easy fold imo, but why would you even bet in the first place OTR

If you are going to bet, bet the flop wtf 2 overs and a FD that's the nuts vs. his entire range... and possibly barrel some turns etc...

Last edited by Evoxgsr96; 01-22-2016 at 08:32 PM.
Evoxgsr96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 08:30 PM   #7
luvthegame
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 389
Re: Hero call?

Not sure why you are posting question since V did exactly what you wanted him to do. You snap called and probably lost cause fish hit random hands once in a while. We can't read the V any better over the web than you can live. I would have checked this hand down knowing that V was capable of betting and raising big on bluffs and your hand has marginal showdown value. But I'm fine with your river bet if it got you the response you wanted. Call.
luvthegame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 08:46 PM   #8
xWindsor
newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 16
Re: Hero call?

I ended up calling and Villian showed K8offsuit. I posted mostly wondering if most of you would fold based on how big the sizing was and if it's a super -ev spot
xWindsor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 08:58 PM   #9
cAmmAndo
The Situation
 
cAmmAndo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Philly
Posts: 4,712
Re: Hero call?

It's a rare villain that this is going to be profitable long term because the number of chops in his range decrease our odds on a call. Not to mention slow played monsters.

Having said that our hand looks like Ahi and given the read on this particular villain I can see why we are tempted to call.

But the math is really bad given the large bet and the potential for chop and vs most villains this call will be -EV long term IMO.
cAmmAndo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 10:43 PM   #10
surviva316
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Worst username ever
Posts: 1,335
Re: Hero call?

You could bet turn for value/protection, but I'm not sure if this leaves our checking range too exposed against a moronic button clicker.

OTR, I don't think the bet is bad, but I think if we're going to choose any street to vbet, it's the turn. There's no protection in betting the river, he's less likely to call with bare overs, etc.

As played, lol, I don't even, wut, okay, lol, I guess just, lol, whatever, I click call. Though he's obviously more than capable of doing this with A-high, I think we're mostly either winning or losing, so he's gonna need a better hand more than 50% of the time. Given he bluffed a dry side with 42o on a broadway heavy board in a 3b pot (LMFAO!!!!!) I think it's much easier to imagine bluff combos than it is to scrounge together enough monsters under the bed to make this a fold.
surviva316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2016, 06:40 AM   #11
browni3141
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Florida
Posts: 4,811
Re: Hero call?

Given that it's 1|2 I'm not at all surprised that some people advocate a fold because bluff catching at this stake majorly sucks in general. I can't recall the number of times I've gotten to the river facing a bet that doesn't make sense where I'm getting stupidly good odds to call just to see some weird gutshot that got there. However, I think conditions are pretty good here. A-high has significant show-down value with this safe runout against a guy who could have almost atc coming to the flop and has shown the ability to go full ****** in the HH. Am I reading too much into the HH here? I mean, he can decide to turn any part of his range into a bluff and we beat almost all of it.

Honestly I think that other streets are more interesting to discuss. I find that this bet often functions as some kind of blocker. Many V's will bet the river when checked to three times here, but will hardly ever bluff raise. There's a lot of merit in a x/c.

Also I agree with others that it seems weird to check it down in the first place just to decide to value bet on the river. We have the best hand on the flop and turn quite often and have equity to back it up if raised on the flop or turn. Why not bet the flop/turn?
browni3141 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2016, 08:06 AM   #12
Kebabkungen
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 365
Re: Hero call?

People who advocate folding against described villain are leaving so much money on the table. You cant just say "math dictates a fold" as if this guy has standard ranges. A player like this likely has any two cards here. Easy call.

Once youve seen the 42o play you snap this off. Well played.
Kebabkungen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 12:42 PM   #13
gobbledygeek
Poet Laureate of LLSNL
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 32,997
Re: Hero call?

I'd typically open limp this hand from EP (trying to encourage a multiway pot and ~nutmining with it depending on postflop action), but it looks like your table is tight enough where a raise can limit the field to HU, so ok.

Even though there are no scare cards to rep, we have decent equity with our overs and nut flush draw, and we probably have at least some smidge of FE against better hands (small pairs, better Ax), so I'd probably bet like 1/2 PSB on the flop and see what happens.

As played, I'm not terribly opposed to just checking flop/turn (as long as we're attempting to bluffcatch).

Against an aggro guy, I'd rather just check to induce one more time on the river. If we are going to bet (for very thin value) then we have to be absolutely sure of what our plan is if raised big (which obviously this guy is capable of doing). If we're not sure of what we're going to do when facing a raise, we should probably consider not betting, especially since betting risks now having to fold the best hand in a mediumish pot. ETA: If our bet on the river was intended to induce a bluff raise, then by all means follow thru with the call (just make sure that is our plan in the first place, and it's unclear to me if we really had a plan).

GimoG
gobbledygeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2016, 05:45 AM   #14
javi
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,457
Re: Hero call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kebabkungen View Post
People who advocate folding against described villain are leaving so much money on the table. You cant just say "math dictates a fold" as if this guy has standard ranges. A player like this likely has any two cards here. Easy call.

Once youve seen the 42o play you snap this off. Well played.
It's not so much that, whereas this kind of villain is going to turn a lot of hands into bluffs that actually beat us if we go around hero calling too often. This guy is just waiting to spew off his stack, we can easily find a better spot.
javi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2016, 11:29 AM   #15
Kebabkungen
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 365
Re: Hero call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by javi View Post
It's not so much that, whereas this kind of villain is going to turn a lot of hands into bluffs that actually beat us if we go around hero calling too often. This guy is just waiting to spew off his stack, we can easily find a better spot.
I agree in general that you should have a better hand than A high when picking off his bluffs, for the reasons you stated. But I dont think it applies on a double paired board like this.
Kebabkungen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2016, 01:16 PM   #16
GreatWhiteFish
centurion
 
GreatWhiteFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 131
Re: Hero call?

I would check/call river. This controls the size of the pot vs. the oddly-played hand that has you beat, and allows him to bluff when you are almost always ahead or chopping. I don't expect to get called on the river often enough by this type of player when they have king or queen high to justify a river value bet.

As played I'd probably call given reads, because you basically induced him by making a bet that looks like a bluff stab on the river.
GreatWhiteFish is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive