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Help Me Understand This Turn CR Help Me Understand This Turn CR

02-03-2014 , 11:29 AM
Earlier today I observed a hand between two V's that I just couldn't figure out.

V1 is in his early 20s. He's quiet, nice white kid. I've only played about an hour at the table, but I've already got him pegged as a thinking, winning TAG. He's easily the best V at the table. He's played very few hands and won them all.

V2 is a white guy in his early 20s. Thinking, decent player, but definitely a casual player. The read I had relevant to this hand is that he seems pretty balanced on the turn in terms of firing/not-firing when his opponent shows weakness. Sometimes he fires light. Sometimes he doesn't. I actually didn't peg this as a way he could be exploited, but maybe V1 had a different read on V2 than me.

$1/2 NL.
V1 is in CO with $600
V2 is on the button with $225

Pre-Flop
Folded around
V1 raises to $12 with KQo
V2 calls
Blinds fold

Flop QT4 (two hearts)
V1 bets $25
V2 calls

Turn offsuit 7
V1 Checks
V2 Bets $50
V1 Goes AI
V2 Calls

River was a blank and V1 scooped the pot.

V2 had QJ. V1 remarked that QJ was the only hand that V2 could play that way that he could beat. V1 thought he was behind when V2 called.
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In V1's spot, I would have just bet all 3 streets for value; but I wouldn't have gotten all of V2s chips. He did. I was trying to figure out if his play had merit.

On the positive side
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It's possible he could get V2 to lay down a better hand. There's some FE.
If he does have the best hand, he'll get max value if turn is bet
He might induce a bluff from V2 and get chips he wouldn't otherwise get.

On the Negative
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It's not exactly a dry board and he could let draws see a free river if V2 checks.
He's giving up control of the hand
He's losing value if V2 checks a worse hand behind

Thoughts on V1's turn play?
Help Me Understand This Turn CR Quote
02-03-2014 , 12:30 PM
Well, looks like V1 isn't as good as you thought. He check/raises turn and then thinks he's behind when he gets called, which means he had no good reason for check/raising turn.

Then again, V1's table talk could be nonsense. In other words, he could just be trying to make V2 feel better.

Check/raising the turn with KQ can be a good play here if we think V2 is going to bet when checked too AND might call a c/r.

In general, the standard line here is to just bomb the turn for $60-$70.
Help Me Understand This Turn CR Quote
02-03-2014 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaYu
Well, looks like V1 isn't as good as you thought. He check/raises turn and then thinks he's behind when he gets called, which means he had no good reason for check/raising turn.

Then again, V1's table talk could be nonsense. In other words, he could just be trying to make V2 feel better.

Check/raising the turn with KQ can be a good play here if we think V2 is going to bet when checked too AND might call a c/r.

In general, the standard line here is to just bomb the turn for $60-$70.
This. Villain 1 isn't that good. CRing here will only get called by better usually, he worse to fold, and better is never folding except maybe AQ. If villain 1 had a read that villain 2 would stab light on turn AND call a CR then cring is the optimal play. Otherwise it's just spew. Otherwise very aggro villains, CRing is great as they stab too often and they often call too wide
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02-03-2014 , 04:46 PM
Flop bet is too big. We want villain to call with Tx and gut shots, not fold. Something like 2/3 pot is perfect. Turn bet is perfect. It's 2/3 pot, denies odds for draws AND can often get looked up by top pair or draws. Betting $60 or more just turns your hand face up as KQ+ and gets weaker top pairs to fold and draws to fold unless you're up agains a total station who will chase at any price
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02-03-2014 , 04:47 PM
Bet flop bet turn and maybe bet fold river or check call, check fold river depending on whether you can get looked up, if you can induce bluffs, etc
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02-03-2014 , 04:51 PM
This is an extremely wet board. V1 could easily get called by a draw. Check/raising to get value from a draw is only good given the read you gave on V2 though.
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02-03-2014 , 05:04 PM
I think V1's line was good.

Looks like AK. Lol.
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02-03-2014 , 07:11 PM
Weird play by Vil 1. Sometimes you see this from even regs at $200NL, he probably didn't think about this hand that much, saw hearts on flop, knew that he got a call and wanted to get value in a weird way from a flush draw. I like this play a lot more if Vil has KJ AK type hands here, honestly even w/o hearts.

As commented above, his line here really only serves to turn an extremely reasonable 3 street value hand into a bluff that never folds out better.
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