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gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen... gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen...

12-27-2014 , 09:10 PM
$1/2 session Horseshoe

Hero: $450. Tight image
V1: $80. Old guy, can't fold top pair/overpair no matter what.
V2: covers all. Ultra-fish on a heater. I am not exaggerating to say that his VPIP is well over 90% (I think I saw him fold preflop 3 times in a 6 hour session). Never raises. His range on the flop is approximately 100% of hands, from 23o and AA (both of which I saw from him at showdown). Will call large postflop bets with flush draws, gutshots, 2pair (even on boards where 2pair can never be good). Will call normal postflop bets with any pair.

Hero UTG+2: raises 7 8 to $13
V1: SB, calls $13.
V2: BB: calls $13.

Pot $39
Flop 6 9 T
V1 leads for $20, V2 calls, Hero raises to $100. V1 calls (all-in), V2 calls.

Villain's calling range for this bet is any top pair, any overpair, bare gutshot, pair+gutshot, sets, 2 pair, diamonds.

Pot $326
Turn ($39) 6 9 T 8. V2 checks to me. Hero??
gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen... Quote
12-27-2014 , 09:51 PM
If he ever raises then bet fold is good. If not I think I'm going to value town on the turn at least. Possibly checking back river.

What was your thinking on the preflop raise? That's important.
gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen... Quote
12-27-2014 , 09:52 PM
Given reads, all in. He's calling a bunch of hands in his range. If he turns a flush, c'est la vie.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using 2+2 Forums
gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen... Quote
12-27-2014 , 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22
What was your thinking on the preflop raise? That's important.
This was a combination of a tight image (other players hopefully giving me credit) and the ultra-fish in the blinds, someone with whom I wanted to play pots. I agree it's usually a fold from EP.
gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen... Quote
12-27-2014 , 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie
Given reads, all in. He's calling a bunch of hands in his range. If he turns a flush, c'est la vie.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using 2+2 Forums
yeah, against described villain, his range is wide enough to contain a ton of 2p combos and TPGK hands that pay us off.

If he turns over the flush, then meh, it just sucks

but against a describe mega spewtard luckbox you describe, no way I'm ever not getting it all-in vs him.

Seriously, with a VPIP of 90% and his tendencies to just go with "any" hand, this is a clear shove on turn given pot size. And if this happens to be the "one time" he has us beat, sigh...

Spoiler:
I assume since you are posting here that you shoved he snapped and showed you a flush and now you are wondering "could I have gotten away..."

No.

If your villain has a wider range of hands that will pay you off that you beat then you are just never incorrect to get it all-in. Period. Math is math.
gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen... Quote
12-27-2014 , 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris
I assume since you are posting here that you shoved he snapped and showed you a flush and now you are wondering "could I have gotten away..."
I won't give it away. I will say "not necessarily" - one of my big leaks in this game is fear, and I often lose value as the board gets scary. So I would be just as likely to post this hand if I failed to stack two pair or Aces with a diamond than I would if I shoved into a made flush.
gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen... Quote
12-28-2014 , 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtagliaf
This was a combination of a tight image (other players hopefully giving me credit) and the ultra-fish in the blinds, someone with whom I wanted to play pots. I agree it's usually a fold from EP.
Then I like the preflop play. I needed to know that your reasons were good and that's the exact answer I was looking for.
gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen... Quote
12-29-2014 , 01:46 PM
I really like everything you did in this hand so far OP plus your PF reasoning.

Against this kind of villain's range. You just such a massive favorite all the time. I value bet the turn call any shoves.

You don't exactly say what villain will do when he hits. Will he generally lead on his made hands or slow-play?

If he generally slow-plays. I would check back the turn. And still b/c anything on the river. I am still never folding most of the time.
gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen... Quote
12-29-2014 , 02:15 PM
He would slowplay. Example hand against him earlier - I raised QQ to 20 and he called. Flop was AK7. We went check/check. Turn was 8 (BD Flush), He checked, I bet 30 for value, he called. River 9, no flush. He checked, I checked (probably missed value), he had TJo for rivered straight.

Some other fun facts about this fun villain, just to help paint the picture:

he called a preflop $34 all-in with 92o.

The one time I had aces in the session, I made it $35 to go preflop over his limp and he called. (my next bet with AA would have been $85, and I'm not kidding. He simply did not fold preflop).

When someone had KK and was value betting against him with prison rape sizing, our friend called to the river and then flipped over AA.

He had a similar hand against me, where I had 66 that stayed an overpair the whole way on a 22344 board, I bet big flop and turn for value and checked the river - he had TT.

He also liked the drama of slow-rolling his big river hands, and didn't know enough English well enough to understand when the table was telling him he might want to stop doing it.
gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen... Quote
12-29-2014 , 02:50 PM
Then I stand by decision. Check the turn and b/c river(maybe up to 1/3 of the pot). If he has a flush meh. If he bets more than 1/2 pot I fold. Insta c/f on any 4th diamond.
gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen... Quote
12-29-2014 , 02:52 PM
Ya, as stated. We have to go to value town. Sometimes value owning ourselves.
gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen... Quote
12-29-2014 , 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtagliaf
Villain's calling range for this bet is any top pair, any overpair, bare gutshot, pair+gutshot, sets, 2 pair, diamonds.
He's calling with 50.4% of hands (thank you flopzilla!), so it looks like he's folding way too much of his range on the flop. He's folding almost half the time to a pot-sized bet. I would definitely think about whether different sizing would cause him to make a calling mistake.

Also he's not a bad person to bluff since he folds so much.

Of the 593 combos he's calling with on the flop, only 55 are flush draws.

That means that over 90% of the time the turn wasn't gross.

If our assumptions about his calling range are correct it seems like the turn is a pretty easy decision. Checking seems pretty horrible.

Last edited by au4all; 12-29-2014 at 03:43 PM.
gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen... Quote
12-31-2014 , 12:03 PM
There's never too much interest in threads where it's just about constructing ranges.

Given the OP, 75% of Villain's range has no diamond.
Over half of Villain's range on the flop is gutshots. 22 is ahead about 55% of the time.

Pretty clearly if we're playing less than 100% of hands we should usually be ahead on the flop.

Since we're usually ahead, on the flop, and the Villain is folding almost half of the time we can profitably raise: any pair or better, any draw with 4 outs or more.

Definitely an interesting (to me) exercise to think how to exploit the given Villain and not be exploited ourselves (by not assuming that someone who plays any two cards usually flops a monster).
gross turn vs. worst player I have ever seen... Quote

      
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