Hero - new to table - bought in for $1000 - got JJ in BB and 3bet over a $30 open from a short stack ($350ish) who is kinda bad and a BTN call who is also short ($300ish) to $130. He jams TT - i snap - and we hold.

Card dead for a few hands and lost about $100

Hero $1200 - with KK

Villain 1 ($1500) UTG+1 goes $25 - he is a tighter player probably opening JTs at a minimum.

Hero calls - Villains behind are 3betting kind of light, there are some short stacks and I am trying to set a trap. It doesn't really work out and hence I get myself into this spot.

Villain 2 ($4500) Not too many reads on this guy - but he seems pretty solid since he has a big stack. He calls.

Fold around


$82 pot

732
Villain 1 goes $50
Hero calls - meh
Villain 2 calls

$232
8d

Villain 1 checks
Hero $125 - probably a mistake
Villain 2 $350
Villain 1 folds
Hero???

Looks like a set of 8's or 7's. Maybe 78? Only thing I really beat is some combo draw.

Yuck. I get the trap setting, but since it didn't work, I'd raise the flop.

This spot really sucks. I'd need better reads than you have to make a call here. Probably fold and play better when he's behind me until I learn more about him

I don't agree with raising the flop here but I would have rather raised pre.

djevans what is your position and what is his position it helps in hand reading

I would prob call, people do this with over pairs that they're trying to protect, especially after the original raiser gives up, and I would think he has some bluffs.

Think you should 3bet preflop bc you mentioned V1 is tighter player and thus tighter range, so other V's may less inclined to 3bet.

Messy spot. IMO, w/ your small sizing on turn, your KK has to be fairly high on your range, which makes folding to smallish raise tough on turn. Id lean towards calling and feeling out river.

More than anyone else on this forum I know what you are trying to do pre, but just 3b. Reserve this trick for AA, and reserve it for lock spots. I mean LOCK.

This is a weird spot where you have a big hand but arent exactly underreped, as you can have all sets and three 78s I imagine. He could be clicking with a few combo draws but Im just gonna baluga.

I just want to comment on your reads.

UTG+1 is tighter player. He opens to $25 and you think he has JTs+? I would think he has TT+ or AK/AQs. I dont find tightish guys raising suited broadway hands in EP.

You said you dont have much of a read on V2 but hes probably pretty solid since he has a big stack. If his stack size is all we have to go on, I find the guys with big stacks like this tend to be loose action players who lose a lot but also build big stacks frequently. So with no other read, I would lean towards thinking he is not the solid technical type player and more of a wild card which makes me lean towards thinking you are ahead here.

Having said that, Im still folding without a real read.

UTG+1 will open some speculative hands - but he seems tighter post. He won't open completely trash but I say JTs+ because I asked him what he had after the hand and he said he had that, who knows if he is lying.

Later on in the session I saw V2 open 4s5s early position to $25 so he is defiantly a little more wild - I didn't have that read during this hand.


I hate calling turn and folding to all river jams. I think checking turn would of been better.

IF I 3bet pre - to say $100 - does V2 still fold 77 or 88? He is deep enough to set mine, but he has to fear a 4bet.

Probably still would of been better. I am in such a ****ed up spot right now, that this can't be +EV no mater what I really do.

What trap are you trying to set ?

Why not 4bet preflop instead keep calling and trapping yourself into losing the entire stack. What you did was not trapping, it was "bad play", yes, you know,.. bad play.

You guys are watching too much TV or YouTube poker and see the champions on those Poker After Dark shows or whatever, playing and now you guys think that's the way you should play too. Those shows are just setup-shows to attract viewers and get ratings. I remember one when Doyle Brunson limps with KK and just calls all the way on every street to the river and clean-up a fish. That was just show pre-setup to make the show look spectacular, but that way of playing KK is stupid and Doyle would never play that way in real games outside of a prearranged FoS show.

This board has so many overlimp/overcall hands (88/77/33/22/87, maybe even 32s) in it that I think you have to find a fold, too.

Pre is so terrible it makes me laugh when people misplay big hands so badly by flatting.

He explained the trap, and it makes sense. I rarely do it, but when you have light 3bettors and short stacks behind you, call/rr KK is a pretty good idea (I'm assuming H is very early position). It just didn't work out this time.

It makes sense?

If it makes sense why you don't do it. You said, "I rarely do it". If it makes sense and if it's a good play why not doing it all the time? The more you do that "good FoS play" the more money you should make if it's a good play. Right?

Actually is not a good play by any standards. The less money you put in the pot preflop with premium hands and the deeper in the hand you slide the worse that play is. There's no way of getting around this bad play. It is a bad play and it will be reflected in your win rate.

Once you fail your trap pre I don't think it's a bad idea to raise that flop with an underrepresented hand. It makes a x/c or x/f easier on the turn.

Makes perfect sense to me. I don't do it every time, but I don't play every hand the same way every time. And I adjust my play based on other players at the table, position, stacks, etc. I'm surprised to find players who play every hand the same way every time, but obviously that's your style. Good luck.

That's a very good reason to fold. At this point it doesn't matter how or why you got here. You're stuck in no mans land. If Im going to make a mistake I would rather it be missing out on a a big pot than losing a huge pot. I cut my losses and move on.

No, I play my entire range the same way. Every hand in my entire range starts the same way (22 or AA or AK, or 98s or A5s or 44/55 or A2s). You'll never ever be able to put me on any hand because any flop could be a good flop for my range or miss. If I raise pre and the flop comes A, x, x I could have an Ace or if the flop comes 7,5,2 and I may have missed with AK but I could have any of the three sets or any overpair or just c-bet air. You never know. That's a good poker Player.

OK, now that makes no sense.

Raising with a wide range of hands (as if any of us don't?) has absolutely no relevance to the OP's mix-up play of trying to trap KK with a couple of players behind him who are 3betting extra wide with some short stacks involved.

For those of you who understand the "trap", how often does this actually work?

Wouldn't we want to get it heads up before the flop with the loose player for it to have a good chance of working?

I would obviously 3-bet pre and fold AP, so that's not interesting, but I am wondering about trapping, since i've had a lot of trouble extracting value from Vs with premium hands.

It's a tough trap because it requires a very specific table dynamic: very aggressive players behind and you preferably want one that's also going to give you extra value occasionally by flatting/jamming your 4b. I don't think that type of table comes up often so I would assume OP isn't trying this too often (if he is it might be a leak).

I've only attempted it with two maniacs behind me, never just over agro LAGs.

This is a bad spot for the trap because a tight player opened UTG - gotta have real button clickers for that.

The flop is a raise because villain is probably done OTT with most of his air and shouldn't be folding many overpairs to our raise. Turn is an easy baluga, don't check the turn that is results oriented.

It's like an oxymoron or something. Trying to trap the crazy maniacs who mostly won't fold anyway if you 3b and they feel like blasting.

Table needs to be wayyyy too specific to make this type of play and works alot better with AA. KK is alot more vulnerable. Your hand looks so obvious and strong when you flat and backraise. Congrats you'll steal an extra $100?

This is not a tournament where you're trying to induce short stacks.

He's not trying to trap the V, he's trying to trap the light 3bettors and short stacks behind him.

It is very table-dependent, but it definitely works vs. the right villains. I play in a few games where this can be pretty profitable. It just didn't work this time.

There are times where call/rr AA/KK is the best play, regardless of what some posters think. I did it once w/ AA vs. a maniac and won a $2,400 pot in a 1/2 game. Not too shabby.

It might be an even better spot w/ a tight player opening UTG, because most tight players will flat or fold worse than AA and 4bet w/ AA to a 3bet and/or all-in by a short-stack.

An overcall on the bone dry flop followed by a turn raise smells like a big hand. While your hand is under-repped, its relative strength is medium at best and that'll be confirmed to villain when you flat this non-threatening turn. Playing call-and-see against truly solid players is really praying they won't bet the river, then folding when they do. Cut yr losses...