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Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river?

02-19-2014 , 10:11 AM
This hand was played at 5am local time, I have been on cash table after busting out on a £100 buy-in tournament since 11pm.

£1/1, 250 buy in max, 6 handed.

Villain (£450) - Long history with this entertaining reg, sometimes he is all sweet and chatty with you, other times he is a bit of a bully. For example earlier in the session a seat to the left of a fish free up on the table, I asked the dealer to move there, got up and started walking, he put a chip there and sat down in front of me, I told him he is a "big bully" as he is slightly overweight.

He is a TAG and often tilt after losing a cooler hand. I have been on top for the last 4/5 encounters, 3 months ago I took him out of a £50 tournament, calling with AK against his air. Last encounter on cash table I took all his chip when we flopped set over set on a dry board, he told me during this session how close he was folding on the flop when I bet half pot (I had QQ, he had TT on a QT8 Rainbow board). Whenever he loses his stack, he stomp off the table without saying a word.

Another significant hand was during this session, I was SB with KQo, I raised to £4, he re-raised to £7, I called, flop 956 rainbow, i checked, he bet £12, I called, Turn 6, I checked, he bet £25, I re-raise £76. He tanked for a bit and folded his TT, and I told him I had 99 and he believed me saying "man, thats sick". I did this just to test whether he thinks I ever bluff, the evidence suggests no.

Hero (£156) - Chinese dude, TAG leaning toward nit, to Villain thinks I hardly ever 3 bet with anything less than TT+, which is true during this session so far

Hero dealt Q4

UTG folded, MP folded, Villain (CO) raised to £7 , BTN folded, SB folded, Hero (BB) raised to £19, V called.

Pot is now £39.

Flop 64K

Hero bet £27, Villain called

Pot is now £93

Turn 9

Hero checked (I was willing to call anything up to 2/3 pot), Villain checked

River J

Hero???
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 10:15 AM
Lol so much spew in such little time..



Bet pot
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 10:17 AM
I hate pre but if you are going to 3b particularly out of BB I think it needs to be bigger. What would you 3b to with AA?

River is a big bet IMO...your line makes zero sense if he is thinking at all so he might look you up a bit lighter. Would he check back KJ-KQ type hand on turn?
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwslim69
I hate pre but if you are going to 3b particularly out of BB I think it needs to be bigger. What would you 3b to with AA?

River is a big bet IMO...your line makes zero sense if he is thinking at all so he might look you up a bit lighter. Would he check back KJ-KQ type hand on turn?

That is the size I would bet all my big PP, he did have a K.
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineeda2
Lol so much spew in such little time..
Could you please elaborate a little? Because of our history, I know he would put me on TT+, AQ+. I am here to ask what I did wrong here.
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 10:26 AM
I'd LOVE a big turn check-raise instead of your planned call.
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgcounty
I'd LOVE a big turn check-raise instead of your planned call.
I cannot tell if you are being serious (due to the fine application of capital letters)
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinyl_Pimp
Could you please elaborate a little? Because of our history, I know he would put me on TT+, AQ+. I am here to ask what I did wrong here.
Well basically the pre-sizings in this hand are awful. He is calling your 3b with his full opening range when you 3b from 7-->19. Like I can't think of a single hand he isn't calling. Of course, that may not be a terrible thing per se but you are going to have to double barrell a lot of boards. c-betting is standard with a pair and some back door stuff. Turn is actually interesting. I don't think there is enough room to c/r so are you c/c?

FWIW I would plan on 3b bigger here with your whole 3b range.

Also this is live poker..stop trying to get people to fold since our image is so tight...it very rarely happens at this level.
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwslim69
Turn is actually interesting. I don't think there is enough room to c/r so are you c/c?
Thank you. I guess you would approve £25-£31 3-bet? If I c/r turn, I was only going be all-in, was happy to C/C up to £60.

Last edited by Vinyl_Pimp; 02-19-2014 at 10:42 AM.
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 10:39 AM
River is a Psb as played.

If you're going to go small pre , go 3x to 21$ so you can shove turns with all you're bluffs, semi bluffs, and made hands with a Psb .

In my case, 21-23 pre,30-32 on flop makes it so turn shove is not an overbet but still maximizes fe

You didn't plan out your sizing in this hand , so stacks are just awkward all around
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 10:42 AM
Wow.

Top off pre.
Fold pre.
3 bet to a decent size (but not with this hand and stack size).
Cbet seems fine.
Turn seems ok.
Bet 80-85 on river.
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwslim69
Well basically the pre-sizings in this hand are awful. He is calling your 3b with his full opening range when you 3b from 7-->19. Like I can't think of a single hand he isn't calling. Of course, that may not be a terrible thing per se but you are going to have to double barrell a lot of boards. c-betting is standard with a pair and some back door stuff. Turn is actually interesting. I don't think there is enough room to c/r so are you c/c?

FWIW I would plan on 3b bigger here with your whole 3b range.

Also this is live poker..stop trying to get people to fold since our image is so tight...it very rarely happens at this level.
Pretty much sums it up. I realize he'll range you're 3! Accordingly but there's really no need to get fancy, especially oop. The fact of the matter is, you have q high, you're oop and you're bloating the pot. This hand may seem fine cause you got there but doing this often is going to be putting you in situations you just don't need to be in. You're making this hard on yourself.
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineeda2
Pretty much sums it up. I realize he'll range you're 3! Accordingly but there's really no need to get fancy, especially oop. The fact of the matter is, you have q high, you're oop and you're bloating the pot. This hand may seem fine cause you got there but doing this often is going to be putting you in situations you just don't need to be in. You're making this hard on yourself.
I would do this play maybe once every 1,000 live hands, its really out of my character hence the thread.

I just want to say thank you for all the inputs, I have NEVER clocked 9 out of 10 winning sessions at that place until I started reading + posting properly this year. Do give a shout if you are ever in London.

Last edited by Vinyl_Pimp; 02-19-2014 at 10:56 AM.
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkelly69
Wow.

Top off pre.
Fold pre.
3 bet to a decent size (but not with this hand and stack size).
Cbet seems fine.
Turn seems ok.
Bet 80-85 on river.
It's. $1/1 he's over 100bb
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwslim69
Well basically the pre-sizings in this hand are awful. He is calling your 3b with his full opening range when you 3b from 7-->19. Like I can't think of a single hand he isn't calling.
I think this is a bit extreme. Clearly there is a point where the Villain begins folding hands, and I would assume he's folding the bottom of his raising range at 19, unless he's super sticky. Are you saying that he calls with nearly his entire range at 19 but would start folding, say, at 22ish (which is a pot-size 3!)?
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
I think this is a bit extreme. Clearly there is a point where the Villain begins folding hands, and I would assume he's folding the bottom of his raising range at 19, unless he's super sticky. Are you saying that he calls with nearly his entire range at 19 but would start folding, say, at 22ish (which is a pot-size 3!)?
Villain is IP. I mean he may fold the extreme bottom of his range I guess. But not much really. I doubt he starts finding the fold BTN for a few extra $$ but perhaps at $25ish.

Did you read the history where villain 3b from 4 to 7? Doubt this guy is a super thinker and trying to get him to fold with a hand that doesn't play very well in 3b pots seems a recipe for disaster (oh unless we know the board run outs of course )
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 12:43 PM
I probably wouldnt 3bet with your stack size. Yes you have over 100bb, but your 3bet commits a significant portion of your stack with a weak hand, which is never good.


As played shove turn
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-19-2014 , 09:55 PM
I actually shoved all in £110 on river, villain jumped off his chair shouting "Have you got pocket Js???". At no point did he wonder whether I had a flush.

I called the clock after 5 mins tank (I have seen him done last second call with worse hand in the past), another minute passed and his hand was dead.

He was pissed off with me, saying I should have bet less for value, even after making a right fold, WTF?
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-20-2014 , 04:21 AM
Nothing to do with the hand but how the **** did he get away with stealing the seat you asked to take as you were walking to it?
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote
02-20-2014 , 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinyl_Pimp
He was pissed off with me, saying I should have bet less for value, even after making a right fold, WTF?
He's right. It's a bit of a spazz shove. What's he going to check behind on the turn with that he can call an over-bet shove on the river? You said you're percieved a nit, why would he put you on a bluff (which is probably all he figures to beat here)? I'd be a bit lower than others itt are advocating, 70-75 maybe, because I want to get paid here.
Got lucky 3-betting with Q4s, what to do on river? Quote

      
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