Playing a fortnightly $1/2 home game with 8 buddies of mine. Game is usually pretty tight overall, but new introduction of a friend of ours who is here to gamble has loosened up play way more than it ever has been. Would say roughly half of the hands are going to flop multiway, no one seems to care too much about playing anywhere near GTO.


Hero is UTG: 20s WG, Probably playing the closest to GTO out of everyone in the field (with the exception of this hand in particular), built a stack from 400 to ~850 by big hands against new guy and a couple less experienced players at the table

Villain: 20s WG, ~350 stack, also playing relatively standard compared to the general field, doesn't tend to make moves often at all, bets some streets a little light (both in terms of sizing and hand strength) but otherwise ok player

Wake up with QTo (Qs, relevant) UTG and take the fishiest line by limping. Logic behind this is that I'm super deep, would prefer to have as many people to the flop as possible (as was often happening) where i get better implied odds, willing to call a raise and new guy UTG+2 had already 3bet me multiple times so wanted to rule that out from happening. 4 callers, Villain in SB opens to $12, BB calls, I call, 3/4 limpers call, 6 ways to the flop.

Flop ($74) As Js 2h. Villain leads out for $25. Much too small of a bet, with the Qs I know he doesn't have any spade combos (wouldnt raise pre with KT or T9), and given at least one other caller I think my odds + any implied are enough to chase the gutter. BB folds, I call, everyone else folds.

Turn ($124) makes the board As Js 2h 8h. Turn a double gutter and he fires $75 into me. At this stage he has $230 or so on top behind. I'm getting strong vibes, either top/middle set, top two, or potentially AK/AQ (he bets light for value sometimes as said before). Figure my hand is super concealed, not worried about the backdoor and implied odds are through the roof, math says I'll need to extract about $8 from him on the river when I hit for my call to be profitable. Additionally, given I know he doesn't have spades, I know I can rep them myself and put him in a super tough spot should he check river (probably not raising on a river spade if fires again, as he might find himself committed). I make the call and gamble.

River completes the board As Js 2h 8h 9h, giving me a straight, as mentioned earlier, minimal chance of backdoor flush but possible. He checks so I'm certain he doesn't have it. As soon as he checks I insta-shove $230 effective into the $270 pot, he tanks folds AJ after about 3-4 minutes, putting me on a set (for obvious reasons I'm not playing AA/JJ with that line pre and AA, JJ, 22 all definitely raising turn if not the flop, AND he blocks AA and JJ so he employed pretty bad logic).

TWO THINGS CONCERNING ME ABOUT THIS HAND

1) What decision should I have honestly made on the turn? Received advice to fold and shove from two players I consider better than me, both with completely different approaches to the game. Or, was calling the right move given the conditions I described?

2) Should I have bet for value on the river? Given that it brought the back-door flush the argument can definitely be made, but I dont really have many combos at all (plus he very well could have blocked a heart, don't remember) so I feel repping that would have to be pretty weak. As noted above about the sets, I really don't have any of them either. As my line looks bluffy as hell, does $23 just add to a bluff-heavy line for most thinking players? Can't help but feel its a spot where he should be calling and losing his money. Asked villain afterwards, he said he was calling a value-bet for $100-120, so given the implied odds I was apparently profitable yet maybe got greedy.

New to the site, keen to learn and don't hold back with feedback! Thanks

To break even on turn call, need to win an extra $125 on river, which may or may not happen. Although you might not get paid if the flush comes in, you can use this to your advantage by bluff shoving spade rivers with Q high. Turn call is break even imo. Wouldn't shove on turn. Def have to shove river.

Not sure where you're getting the math on the turn call. If all your outs are good (i.e. he doesn't have a spade draw or back door hearts) then there are 8 good cards for you on the river, and you've seen 6 cards in the deck. So your 8/46=17.4% to hit river. That's 4.75:1. You're being asked to call $75 and there's $125 in the pot already. All told you need to make 4.75*75, or $356 when you bink, so need to get another $156 on average into the pot when you hit. V only has $230 behind, so you need to shove and get called 2/3 of the time when you hit to break even on the turn call. That seems optimistic, especially since half your outs complete a front door or back door flush draw.

Think you recognize this as well but pre is pretty bad. I'd just fold UTG first time, and I'd also fold to the SB raise. Some risk that someone decides to squeeze after limping once there's a train of callers, and you can't call them even if you think their FOS.

Yep, you're definitely right here, think I screwed the math by assuming half of the $156 I need to make up comes from my own river bet. Also, fairly obvious typo (i would hope) that I meant $80 when I said $8, don't think I was that out of line haha. Thanks!

You played this hand about as badly as possible, so I'm not going to go into that. My main concerns are that you seem to have convinced yourself that:

1. You're playing close to GTO.
2. That GTO is the most profitable way to play in this game.

While anything is possible, I doubt you understand what playing GTO actually means. However, I'll let you prove me wrong. Pick another hand from this session where you believe you were playing GTO and run through your thought process and calculations on each street.

Beyond that, GTO is not the most profitable way to in a 1/2 home game. You seem to know the players well. Your goal isn't to play GTO, but to exploit their weaknesses to earn more money.

My goal isn't to embarrass you. Poker requires being brutally honest with yourself to win and survive. Take this as a wake up call to start working on your game.

Fold pre.

TL;DR

Cliffs:

1). UTG, Hero limps with QTo.
2). Hero calls 2 streets worth of bets, hoping to hit a miracle.
3). Hero luckboxes the river, but still doesn't get paid.

Hate the reference to gto as some sort of holy grail, not the way to play llsnl..... In fact I would argue not the way to play any no limit game of poker....but that's another debate.
This is pretty tragic pre-flop, qt off utg is a fold under pretty much any circumstance, limping it is just terra-bad. You can try and justify any way you want with implied odds etc, but the simple fact is your oop with a poor hand, easily dominated and a capped range..... This is not a profitable spot.
Flop...are we really calling on a gut shot straight here with people to act behind us....heads up, this is a great float spot.....multiway, just fold.
Turn, it's probably a long term break even shove, and a long term break even, call then shove rivers we hit, I prlersonally prefer the turn jam..... But honestly I'd rather fold, I don't need the mad variance from his spot and can find a much more profitable spot for my money.

Pre is an abomination. Fold first time around. If the cards are stuck to your fingers or something and you can't let them go, raise to $15. At least you can be balancing your UTG range for your gtolol strategy.

Flop is a fold. Too likely somebody else has spades or Ax and will come along for the ride, which is going to make bluffing later streets more complicated.

Turn is marginal. I can get behind a call as long as you think he will fold to a bluff shove on spade or heart rivers.

as played. bet $125 on the river. This was the only "GTO" part of this hand, and an exploitable strategy would have served you better. You were expecting him to fold on flush rivers which helped justify your turn call. You can't call the turn, expecting him to fold to a shove on scary rivers, yet also expect him to call a value shove on scary rivers. So bet an amount that he will call on the river, even if it means you can never be bluffing (he'll still pay you off)