$1/2

V1 - Older British guy. Tried to buy-in with 10 black $100 chips in a $300 max game. He's new to the table and has only played 4 or 5 hands and took down two of them with pot bets on the flop after limping. ($300)

V2 - Pretty good ABC player. He's opening the most pots at the table, maybe 22-25%. Post flop, he's sizing his bets well, reading players well. Typically bets if he has it, checks if he doesn't. Hasn't done anything out of line. ($600)

V3 - Short stack rec player ($22) playing fairly tight/passive game.

V4 - 30 y/o Asian businessman rec player. Has been limping lots pf. Occasionally, he limp/folds to a raise. Occasionally, he limp/calls and then plays fit or fold post flop. Loose passive overall. ($260)

Hero - Likely TAG image ($310)

Pre-flop
V2 raises to $15 from UTG+1
V3 + V4 call from MP
Hero calls on the button with AQ
V1 Calls from the BB

Flop ($60)
998
V2 checks
V3 goes all-in for $7
V4 calls $7
Hero raises to $45

My thinking here is that V2 definitely missed the flop. V3 (the all-in guy) could have anything from a gutshot to trips. V4 didn't have much.

V1 is the wildcard. He looked competent enough that he wouldn't try to slowplay trips against that many players on a board so wet. So, I thought he had a hand he would fold.

Even though the amount of my raise is only $45 (which would be a normal sized bet), I think it looks stronger than just a bet. I think a bet of $7 and a raise to $45 looks stronger to most $1/$2 players than just a $45 bet. A bet in position can look bluffish, but a raise tends to have more perceived power.

Anyways, this is a variation on a play Iraisetoomuch posted in another thread yesterday. I like the idea of isolating the all-in with a decent chance to win the pot. I thought it was possible that my A-high was good if V3 was on a draw. Also, I thought I could fold out some draws and pairs that had me beat from the other Vs. I almost thought of it kind of like a c-bet even though I wasn't the original raiser.

Thoughts on this play?

Spew.

You are are facing a player who is all-in... and you have ace high. Not a good spot. Also, in general, bluffing this flop versus 4 other players is generally bad. V1 is also behind you, and from what you have told us about him, he probably is a gambler of some sort. Wouldn't be looking to run any big bluffs while he is in the pot.

300 cap 2/5 game? wtf? Find a better game IMO.

Oh and Iraisetoomuch... raises too much... fold this hand OTF.

It's a $1/2 game, not $2/5. You're folding the flop for $7 into a $60 pot? I didn't even consider that. My second option was just calling the $7. I thought the $7 bet was pretty meaningless. I think he's throwing that in the pot with any draw (including gutshots) and probably any little pair.

I'm very curious what hand I suggested that this line was take from.

I assume that it was from the 'we have 55 and a short stacked shoved all in pre flop' hand. That hand has some very different dynamics going on, so I'm not sure that we can really compare.

As for this hand:
We often have the best hand here right now if the hand was to end, but the problem is that the hand will not end here. There are two more streets to come, we don't really have a lot of ways to improve, and someone is all in already, and we have to beat them to win the pot.
And many of the V's have hands that can improve to beat us with a variety of cards. They are in fact equity favorites against us. And they won't fold them a lot of the time here to our bet. Many strong combo draws might in fact 3bet us on the flop and just try and get it in. This isn't counting all the times that someone has 9x and we are destroying our stack by trying to move them off of it.

I'd just pitch this on the flop.
I think that I'd also 3bet this pre flop with the dead money in the middle if the original raiser is really opening as wide as you say.

Yeah, I was thinking of that 55 hand. I know that was a stronger move because of the chance to grab the whole pot and all the dead money. That was the hand that made me think of this play though.

I did consider 3 betting pf. I was thinking of the positional advantage; but the dead money should have tipped it in favor of a 3 bet.

I guess I shouldn't have discounted 9x so easily.

Just call the $7 or fold. Why are you trying to isolate a tight player who's all-in with A high?

I would love to 3 bet this. You have a great chance of folding the good player out while getting calls from the fish. Ideal.

I think it's awful. What is the point of raising when you don't hit the flop? If you thought your hand was strong raise pre-flop. At least if you raise then you have a chance of having a large pot with a strong hand. Instead you'll likely have large pot with a weak hand.

Another vote for 3-bet PF here IP. Take the dead money and run with the AQ against the short stack.

AP I dont think this is the best move with 3 players left to act ... any of them could be holding a 9x. Your saving grace here is that you have the Ace flush card .. but other flush draws could also have straight draws with them so your not really forceing them to fold since your bet looks fishy. The table also 'knows' you are trying to isolate here and may be wondering why you didn't do it PF.

You are 'only' picking up $20 (13+7) by waiting until now to isolate and you have allowed everyone to see the Flop under no additional pressure. That means you probably will only be called when beat and I don't think that you will scare off everyone enough to get away with this move +EV long term. GL

If neither player was all in then this could be a good spot to raise but given that a player is all in, just call.

BTW, it is very common for players that make the mistake of underplaying their hand preflop, to then overplay their hand post flop. I see this all the time from nits, and have even found myself guilty of this when I have misplayed a hand like AK or JJ pre. It is a form of tilt, so just be cognizant of whether or not tilt is driving your aggression.

Just wanted to say that 55 hand was mine from the other thread and kinda interesting that particular hand influenced your play, power of these forums I guess, so on a side note I seriously appreciate all the convo and ideas that get tossed around here.

For the hand I would of 3b pre and just called the measly $7 on flop and hope it gets checked thru but I'm a nit so nice to see other lines being considered.

In addition to what others are saying about possible draws having greater equity than us, I'd also say that it's not an absolute lock that V2 missed the flop. One combo of 99, three combos of 88 and two red combos of 98s would probably like to check this in a multiway pot (think we can include SCs from EP if he raises 25% of the time). 6 combos aren't a ton but they ought to at least be considered within his range.

3-bet pre for reasons stated prior. After multiple callers its nice to bump it up with dead money in the pot. Although it would be interesting to know if you had a read on V2's UTG opening range.

On the flop I'm likely calling or folding. As you said its 7 into 60 so its likely the right call. However it does put us in a weird spot. Raising is the worst option IMO because it gets is caught in a weird semi-bluff spot with a marginal hand that could be dominated. These pots are when I try and keep it basic. Small hand small pot big hand big pot. It seems to be a good game and theres likely way better opportunities.

Yeah, I agree with all the analysis everyone posted. That's why I posted the hand. I actually came home from the casino thinking it was a good play, but I wasn't sure. 3-bet pre should have been easy. I'm just starting to get comfortable 3-betting people who open too many pots with hands less than TT-AA and AK.

V2 was just not the slow playing kind of guy. He would have fired at the flop with any pair, draw, and likely even a boat.

Here's how the hand played out:

V1 tanked for like 5 minutes. At one point he said, "I can't just call. I either have to shove or fold". I'm not sure why he felt like that. He had odds to just call for the flush.

Everyone else folded. The all-in guy had pocket 10s. The board ran out with a Q and J giving him the straight.

I actually thought I was a favorite vs the all-in's range. That's why I raised. I thought his range was all PPs, all Fds, all straight draws, some 8x's, and obviously trips or a boat. I thought there was a good chance A high was good against the all-in.

Anyways, V1 said he had a flush draw after the hand was over. V2 said he would have won the pot. If he was being honest, that would mean that he had KT, JJ, or QQ with KT being the overwhelmingly likely hand.

I see now that it was a crazy, spewy play and I was just fortunate that no one had a 9. A nice side effect was that it did get me less respect and more action on future hands. Thanks for the feedback