Game is $1/$2 $300 max. Hero is in for $500 and has gotten back in the black ($650). Game is a decent mix of rec's with only one other reg and we generally stay out of each other's way unless it is big hand x2.

V1 is MAWG from "Turn Decision" hand. Again, still has not said a word and seems pretty tight. He has $700.

V2 is also MAWG/OMC but plays looser and seems to know what he is doing. Not a ton of reads ($350).

OTTH

Folded to V1 in MP who limps, Hero ISO raises to $15 with A9, folded to V2 OTB who calls (grrrr), blind fold and V1 calls. 3 way to the flop with $44 ($4 rake).

Flop ($44)

Q34

V1 checks. This is kind of a tweener spot for a c-bet. Good texture, only two opponents. Problem is I have very little equity if called so seems like a one and done board if I am going to bet. Could try for a delayed c-bet as a bluff too...anyway, Hero takes the aggro action (go figure) and bets $27. V2 calls relatively quickly, V1 checks his cards, thinks for 5 seconds and then calls. Not what Hero wanted of course.

Turn ($124 after max rake)

Q34Q

V1 checks, Hero decides he is probably done and checks as well, V2 checks. Interesting....

River ($124)

Q34Q8

V1 tanks for 15 seconds, the bets $75.

So my thoughts are that it is very unlikely V1 is super strong here given his line, the fact that he checked his cards before calling the flop (to see if he had clubs??) and that a good portion of his range is busted draws. I am also not that worries about V2 as he checked behind on the turn when checked to so there is no way he has a Queen and likely has a mid pocket pair or a missed draw that won't be able to take any heat.

So, my two options are as follows:

1. Fold
2. Bluff raise to something like $175-$210

Which do you like (or is there a third alternative in your mind)?

Thanks,

Shorn

With V1 being OOP, why is he unlikely to have a Q here? To me his line would make sense checking to PFR on flop and then again on turn. Are we basing this purely on his checking his cards for a club/clubs?

Yeah kinda. I mean do you need to look again to know what paint you have? Just seemed weird to me for him to do that if he had a hand like KQ/QJ/QT etc.

I'm not saying this is a bad spot to Bluff as I think he is very polarized with a queen / boat or nothing but in my experience you may be putting too much emphasis on his rechecking his cards. He may just want to make sure that he had a queen like he thought.

Bet the turn. You don't have the Ac which is a key card here. You don't block hands like Ac2c-5c

Lots of draws and non-believing pp's could come along on that flop. Turn is great card for your range and should get lots of folds.


AP, any chance we just call river given his range is full of busted draws?

Some people just like to check their cards, or maybe he has one of the Qx hands you mentioned of the off-suit variety and he was checking to see if he had one club in his hand. Seeing this one or two times from an individual V usually isn't enough for me to act on it as a live tell.

Had you checked back flop and he checked to you a second time OTT then I think it's much less likely he has a Q given that he really can't count on you firing a delayed c-bet. The fact that you did bet flop, the line is very believable that Qx would check to you a second time OTT. V definitely could have a missed draw, but your line of checking turn/raising river would look pretty fishy to me as well.

Fold pre, this is a pretty big mistake. Ap, check flop. Ap, fold river. Raising reps 88 only, although you personally probably bet 88 ott, so your raise would actually rep nothing at all.

Agree to fold pre, but once we are here...

Shouldn't we be betting with turn to keep KK+, KQ, AQ, in our range?

Also, OTR why can't we be betting 77-JJ? We can get called by much worse on that flop with our underpair and get worse to call on a paired board OTR....too thin?

Spew. Both people on draws on this board is way less likely than one of them having Qx. They can still call the turn with 55-JJ and good flush draws. You're not getting it through very often. Maybe you plan to fire all three? Save it for when you have KJ and block the most likely Qx hands.

Why bet this hand though? KK+/KQ,AQ is only 28 combos. If we're betting most of our A9's (that we shouldn't have in the first place, but I digress), then we can't bluff much else.

Did you misread the action? Villain already bet the river and now OP wants to raise. You have 77/99-JJ in your RAISING range after this runout?

Not having the A and LLSNL V's unwillingness to felt with 1p makes me want to bet turn, obviously folding to a raise, and then fire river to get folds from p+draws and pp's. That turn is great for our range and we can get so many better hands to fold.

Why does everyone want to double barrel one of the worse turn cards vs 2 opponents who called our cbet?

Putting both of them on draws is a little optimistic, no?

AP, V1 just led into 2 opponents OTR, doubt this is a bluff often.

Fold pre check flop.

I don't like that at all as a bluff spot. I still have a lot of strong hands in V2s range. I agree he probably bets Qx on the turn in position given the clubs, but maybe he has the A and figures he blocks some draws and is looking to maximize by checking his monster after it seems everyone made one stab and gave up. He's keeping in all your bluffs. 33 and 44 also play this way. If it was HU, maybe you can blow V1 off the hand but I don't like this spot 3 way with action behind when we could be drawing dead. I fold.

Thanks to all for confirming what I thought....AFTER the session of course.

At the time, I convinced myself that V checking his cards meant there was little to no chance he had Qx here and that he was either bluffing the river with missed clubs or with a one pair hand that he figured was not good at showdown (I was not at all worried about V2 OTB).

So, I raised to $180, V2 quickly folds. V1 tanks for a good two minutes, checks his cards more than once, and reluctantly calls and tables QJo. Doh...

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts and what will be the subsequent (and deserved) beating. I seem to be making a habit of this type of thing once per session which is really eating into my hourly. Got to find a way to stop it and just wait for value hands.

Just to add a thought about double checking your cards. I'm not sure how many people do this, but I think I probably do it a bunch (maybe too much).

I always know what I have (ok, 98% of the time), it's kind of something I take pride in. A lot of the time I look back I am thinking, "ok, I gotta crappy kicker here, hope I'm not about to get myself in a bind."

I guess it's a way of preparing to tell myself "I told you so" later.

So you want to bluff a “pretty tight” player who has led into two players with a hand you really should’ve folded pre? Interesting...

[Grunch]

If a raise to $15 in the Steal or Lowjack gets folds around the vast majority of the time, it must be a tight game.

If you c-bet that light when you're in between 2 Vs, I'd think they would have picked up on that by now.

So, you think a pretty tight player bluffs here into 2 players? Note that it is a tell of a good hand when they look at their cards & then bet. Unless they know that & are sending a reverse tell. Or, if he is bluffing, he may have cards that don't block str8 draws [that didn't hit] & wanted to confirm his high card wasn't a club, increasing flush draws you 2 could have. Or, he has a Q, didn't think he'd get 2 streets of value if he bet the turn & thought you 2 would find it suspicious if he delayed his value bet.

Or, he was making sure he had 88 & not 89

Post read of replies: AllThatCheese! Fold pre A9o is a garbage ace and you're too far off the button.