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Old 04-14-2018, 09:36 AM   #1
Scooo13zzz
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Good Bluff or Good Spew 1/3??

I think the biggest problem with this hand is I pulled this on a random villain. I wasn't playing my A game last night but I wanted to see what you guys thought about this hand.

v1- limps $3

v2- calls $3

Hero- makes it $20 A4 from BTN

v3- calls $20 from BB

v1- calls $20

v2- calls $20

Pot= $80

Flop- A99

v3- checks

v1- checks

v2- checks

Hero- we check Do you like the check???

Turn- 10

v3- bets out $55

v1- folds

v2- folds

Hero- calls $55

River- 10

v3- bets out $55

Hero- Raises to $205

lol no this isn't for value
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:48 AM   #2
MikeStarr
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Re: Good Bluff or Good Spew 1/3??

Flop check is good.
Turn call is good
River card is the worst card in the deck and raising is really bad. I mean you can make him fold a chop sometimes but hes gonna have the T way too often to try this.
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:50 AM   #3
Scooo13zzz
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Re: Good Bluff or Good Spew 1/3??

mike do you fold the river?
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:53 AM   #4
snowman
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Re: Good Bluff or Good Spew 1/3??

I would call the river
not raise or fold
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:57 AM   #5
Scooo13zzz
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Re: Good Bluff or Good Spew 1/3??

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman View Post
I would call the river
not raise or fold
only problem is we don't beat anything

with his sizing I eliminated his bluffs

I had him ranged to more Ax and 9x then a 10 because I didn't feel like he would bet a ten on the turn with the A out there because v1 and v2 in early position could still have an A
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:57 AM   #6
MikeStarr
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Re: Good Bluff or Good Spew 1/3??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooo13zzz View Post
mike do you fold the river?
Time for a soul read on the river. Depends on the player. Some guys wouldve never bet the turn with a T. Some will always bet a T there thinking they have the best hand. Some will check the flop to the raiser with a good ace and then bet the turn assuming they are good now (which they are most of the time)...but a lot of those guys will be afraid that YOU called the turn with the T and will check the river hoping you check back.

So it all depends on the player.
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:59 AM   #7
Scooo13zzz
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Re: Good Bluff or Good Spew 1/3??

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Time for a soul read on the river. Depends on the player. Some guys wouldve never bet the turn with a T. Some will always bet a T there thinking they have the best hand. Some will check the flop to the raiser with a good ace and then bet the turn assuming they are good now (which they are most of the time)...but a lot of those guys will be afraid that YOU called the turn with the T and will check the river hoping you check back.

So it all depends on the player.
yea this was verse an unknown WHICH IS MY BIGGEST MISTAKE HERE
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:02 AM   #8
MikeStarr
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Re: Good Bluff or Good Spew 1/3??

Against an unk I fold. You chop with A8 or lower. You still lose to A9 or higher. He called a raise so hes more likely to have a bigger ace than a lower one. He can still have the 9 or the T.

I just fold the river and curse the poker gods for that river.
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:18 AM   #9
snowman
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Re: Good Bluff or Good Spew 1/3??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooo13zzz View Post
only problem is we don't beat anything

with his sizing I eliminated his bluffs

I had him ranged to more Ax and 9x then a 10 because I didn't feel like he would bet a ten on the turn with the A out there because v1 and v2 in early position could still have an A
with no info on V

hero raises pre than checks A on flop
V takes lead on turn ;
your flop check could make him think you don't have an A
small river bet to me smells like a bluff
$pot a $245 and cost us $55 to call
V's range could be wider JJ KQ 88 77 which both just got counterfeited
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:30 AM   #10
sai1b0ats
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Re: Good Bluff or Good Spew 1/3??

Bet size looks like a slow played nine or maybe a ten. Villains love to make the lol block/call move so I probably just fold readless. Some villains suck at bluff sizing so I don't think a call is too bad. You reasonably rep a 10, but, yeah, get at least a population read first.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:34 AM   #11
gobbledygeek
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Re: Good Bluff or Good Spew 1/3??

First thing that popped out at me was "bluff" and "random villain"; in general, I default to not attempting to bluff a random villain due to we don't have any history with them / don't know if they have a fold button / aren't aware of their image / they aren't aware of our image.

I'll assume $300 (100bb) stacks.

I'm not in love with the preflop result and if this is the expected case I'd rather overlimp. Really depends on how often we think the raise will take it down preflop / isolate to HU.

I also check back the flop. Board is completely drawless and our 3 opponents should have very few combined outs against us. We're pretty much WA/WB.

Not exactly in love with the fact that the first guy is betting out the turn due to the fact the other two guys could have easily been checking monsters to the raiser on the flop. I think we probably have to call given how we played the flop (which is fine) but still not thrilled. Overall, this pot is much larger than it should be at this point, and that's due to preflop.

I have zero clue what we are attempting to do on the river; I suppose fold out AK/AQ/AJ? We have a showdownable hand that has no reason to bluff. The tricky thing is that it is such a small bet that is expecting to be called, and thanks to our preflop raise mostly narrowing Ax hands to ones that beat us here, and the fact he could simply have a 9x / Tx (9x betting small not loving the second T, is that who we're targetting?), and the fact his turn lead into the world is strong, I think I lean towards folding (even though some turn draws busted). We're getting a very cheap price so I guess I can't hate too much on a call, but we're basically calling to chop at best and I just don't see a busted draw betting this "same bet". But on the other hand this guy is unknown so we really have zero clue what he could be betting here, which brings me around to the same similar point: don't build big pots against unknowns (i.e. preflop).

Gpreflopresultbuiltwaytoobigapot,imoG
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:51 AM   #12
sai1b0ats
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Re: Good Bluff or Good Spew 1/3??

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
First thing that popped out at me was "bluff" and "random villain"; in general, I default to not attempting to bluff a random villain due to we don't have any history with them / don't know if they have a fold button / aren't aware of their image / they aren't aware of our image.

I'll assume $300 (100bb) stacks.

I'm not in love with the preflop result and if this is the expected case I'd rather overlimp. Really depends on how often we think the raise will take it down preflop / isolate to HU.

I also check back the flop. Board is completely drawless and our 3 opponents should have very few combined outs against us. We're pretty much WA/WB.

Not exactly in love with the fact that the first guy is betting out the turn due to the fact the other two guys could have easily been checking monsters to the raiser on the flop. I think we probably have to call given how we played the flop (which is fine) but still not thrilled. Overall, this pot is much larger than it should be at this point, and that's due to preflop.

I have zero clue what we are attempting to do on the river; I suppose fold out AK/AQ/AJ? We have a showdownable hand that has no reason to bluff. The tricky thing is that it is such a small bet that is expecting to be called, and thanks to our preflop raise mostly narrowing Ax hands to ones that beat us here, and the fact he could simply have a 9x / Tx (9x betting small not loving the second T, is that who we're targetting?), and the fact his turn lead into the world is strong, I think I lean towards folding (even though some turn draws busted). We're getting a very cheap price so I guess I can't hate too much on a call, but we're basically calling to chop at best and I just don't see a busted draw betting this "same bet". But on the other hand this guy is unknown so we really have zero clue what he could be betting here, which brings me around to the same similar point: don't build big pots against unknowns (i.e. preflop).

Gpreflopresultbuiltwaytoobigapot,imoG
lol at criticizing pre flop.

claiming no reason to bluff is just funny. the problem is that we don't have a read that Villain has a fold button when we credibly rep a 10. Villain should show up with a 9 here quite a bit, but most of them aren't folding.
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