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Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out

04-10-2021 , 08:21 PM
Main villain in this hand is unknown havenÂ’t seen any action from him yet other than folding this hand takes place about 30 mins after our game just started

Hero has not been involved much either in any hand.

The second villain is your typical weak passive seeming opening a lot of weak hands pre and just folding to aggression but thatÂ’s just what I have seen the game is only 30 mins old

Otoh folds to loose passive in +2 (500ish stack) opens to 15

We look down at pocket jacks next to act (maybe we can just call hoping somebody squeezes bc it was a very tight game other than the +2 ( sort of Tuesday noon type of game vibe ) any how I make a 3! 55 ? Main villain is next to act and thinks about it for a little bit than cold calls. Btn and blind fold ir folds well

Pot ( 132 ) flop is 225 rainbow

What are some options here and the ideas behind some of the lines we can represent ? Anyhow hero bets 65 for a little protection incase villain floats w some suited Broadway back doors ( <—— I don’t know If this is some wishful thinking ) or he floats with 55+ but than on turn is he really calling again say 66+ If I bet so maybe a (check ?sometimes idk) Or are jj too vulnerable to take tht line



Villain calls pot is (262) turn is 8 board is still full rainbow hero bets 100 ?

Villain calls

River is 10

hero checks villain bets 350 hero

Last edited by jwins24; 04-10-2021 at 08:27 PM.
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote
04-10-2021 , 08:22 PM
Main villain cover hero

Hero abt 970 eff
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote
04-10-2021 , 08:39 PM
Hard to offer thoughts with no reads on V....

If V is competent I think I'm calling here. If V is a incompetent I'm probably folding like 75-80% of the time and shrug, hero calling the other 20%.
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote
04-10-2021 , 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twitcherroo
Hard to offer thoughts with no reads on V....

If V is competent I think I'm calling here. If V is a incompetent I'm probably folding like 75-80% of the time and shrug, hero calling the other 20%.


Why ? Call competent and not incompetent ???

Maybe incompentant has suited ace deuce in their range and just wanted to cold call ?? It’s 2/5 nl but he did seem to be more competent for sure also more in the snug side

Last edited by jwins24; 04-10-2021 at 08:52 PM. Reason: Forgot
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote
04-10-2021 , 09:28 PM
As I read the post, I was thinking Villain 88-TT, which makes that river suck. However, I wouldn't have checked the river for three reasons. The first (and main) is for value - lead the river for ~1/3 pot $100. The second is to gauge the villain's reaction. The third (and least important) is, if he folds, I don't have to show.

If I lead and he puts in a big raise, I'm going to tank and unless I find a reason to call, into the muck it goes.

I like the preflop and flop bets, but I don't think the turn was enough. I would prefer more, like $130 to $150, or a little over half the pot.
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote
04-10-2021 , 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKon
As I read the post, I was thinking Villain 88-TT, which makes that river suck. However, I wouldn't have checked the river for three reasons. The first (and main) is for value - lead the river for ~1/3 pot $100. The second is to gauge the villain's reaction. The third (and least important) is, if he folds, I don't have to show.

If I lead and he puts in a big raise, I'm going to tank and unless I find a reason to call, into the muck it goes.

I like the preflop and flop bets, but I don't think the turn was enough. I would prefer more, like $130 to $150, or a little over half the pot.
Edit: this hand illustrates why playing OOP SUCKS!
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote
04-11-2021 , 01:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwins24
Why ? Call competent and not incompetent ???

Maybe incompentant has suited ace deuce in their range and just wanted to cold call ?? It’s 2/5 nl but he did seem to be more competent for sure also more in the snug side
b/b/x after 3b pre is going to look like AK/AQs a lot. OP’s generally would fire a 3rd bullet.
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote
04-11-2021 , 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twitcherroo
b/b/x after 3b pre is going to look like AK/AQs a lot. OP’s generally would fire a 3rd bullet.
I was playing too solid and I think he had a read in the situation knowing I would prob be checking flop w the intent to x/c turn. any hand calling my my turn Bet can know check back and win against ace high not have to risk bluffing
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote
04-11-2021 , 02:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwins24
I was playing too solid and I think he had a read in the situation knowing I would prob be checking flop w the intent to x/c turn. any hand calling my my turn Bet can know check back and win against ace high not have to risk bluffing
Given I had a ak aq ...
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote
04-11-2021 , 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwins24
Given I had a ak aq ...
And he knows that I’m pretty sure that’s why I checked but I did get what I wanted ... right ? Did I under estimate my opponent hand strength did he get lucky and make a set ? Does he have an over pair ? If so can I ever fold it’s an over bet of 1.5 pot and I am aware he’s a savior player and knows I’m a reg in the room tht bbx line is sort of fishy w ak aq on this flop w our current Oppenent he did only cold call pf
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote
04-11-2021 , 03:30 AM
What is villain bluffing with here? 77 will just check back, usually. I don’t think A high calls turn a lot.

So I would fold.
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote
04-11-2021 , 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matzah_ball
What is villain bluffing with here? 77 will just check back, usually. I don’t think A high calls turn a lot.

So I would fold.
I did call and lost ... are we ever calling here with qq kk or aces ?
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote
04-11-2021 , 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwins24
I did call and lost ... are we ever calling here with qq kk or aces ?
QQ+ starts to beat some preflop slowplays. I'd call KK, AA. Probably folding QQ.

Problem with this spot is it's just really hard to find bluffs for villain here. If I were in villain's spot I probably don't have any bluffs. Every hand in his range has significant showdown value and most will just be happy you checked so they can check back river. If he bluffs river with AK or pairs he has to think he can get you off an overpair, which can be hard to do.
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote
04-11-2021 , 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
QQ+ starts to beat some preflop slowplays. I'd call KK, AA. Probably folding QQ.

Problem with this spot is it's just really hard to find bluffs for villain here. If I were in villain's spot I probably don't have any bluffs. Every hand in his range has significant showdown value and most will just be happy you checked so they can check back river. If he bluffs river with AK or pairs he has to think he can get you off an overpair, which can be hard to do.

+1, hard for V to have bluffs here and some weight of 88/tt/kk/aa are all prob in his range and comfortable betting river big

Also, altho we don’t have much info on V, his likely bluffs here would be pairs turned into bluffs and floated AK- guys that want to turn 99 into a bluff/float to blast river like to play hands. Incrementally less likely since he ~folded first 15 hands
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote
04-11-2021 , 10:57 PM
I think we can size up on the flop, cuz that cold calling range is soooo heavy on 77-TT that is never folding. Betting 100 seems good, it could be hard to get more money in if an overcard comes or if Villain just decides to fold to a second barrel.

Turn sizing looks fine, it gets tough to go too big now.

River: this runout is REALLY good for his range. Check-folding to this betsize seems perfectly reasonable. I'd argue that JJ is our best bluffcatcher since most of his bluffs might be AK/AQ i guess, but how many villains get this far with those hands AND then have the awareness to bluff? So yeah, i fold.
Going for two streets of value w an (OP) JJ than inducing river bluff on clean run out Quote

      
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