Thank you for risking the banhammer to respond, and I too hope Garick lets this minor transgression slide.

Appreciate the response, but in deference to the mods I'll refrain from extending the discussion and do some research via the search function.

TY again.

This.

It's happened to me twice by bad fish regs in last couple of months. Once a guy overlimped 4 players in CO with KK with $100 stack, I raised QQ in BB he then jammed (I snapped thinking always 77-TT).

Another time a diff bad fish reg limp called aces for $80 then shipped the flop when I had KK on J65. Just amazing stuff

Shortstacked is one thing but I've seen guys do this and overbet jam pre for like 250bb and get looked up by JJ. It's not a play I use but the way preflop raisers respond to it makes me wonder if in the right spot it's not perhaps an ok play only because how ******ed it seems to make the preflop raiser.

You shouldn't always limp KK, but should be able to recognize some spots where this will usually work and how to not get stacked when no one raises.

This 1 in 20 stuff is a bunch of garbage.

There are lots of opportunities for you to win money postflop if you are good at recognizing spots to vslue bet thinly, bluff catch lightly, and/or bluff. You don't need to flop 2pair+ or get paid off on a conpleted straight/flush draw to do any of those things.

Venice, you are forgetting that the 10/20/30 "rule" for pairs/SCs/SGs is not REALLY a rule. It is a guideline for bad players who wouldn't otherwise understand implied odds.

You don't need to win 20x your limp to limp with a SC profitably. You just need to know how to play postflop well to justify limping a SC in a spot where raising the SC would be dumb and folding the SC would be a travesty.

Basically, you need to join the rest of us in 2016 and forget all the nonsense that you learned back in 2006 (like the obsolete 10/20/30 "rule")

I've seen some players say they try to follow Ed Miller's advice to never ever limp. I don't go that far but he does emphasize that a lot. He literally says he never limps and I've seen him give advice like "Do not limp. Do not limp. Do not limp."

Dont punish them with 78s or small pocket pairs after limping just call.

Punish them if you limped with AJo or KJs

You misunderstand the meaning of passive. Calling isn't passive when an aggressive player does it. E.g. when an aggressive player decides to checkraise, the check isn't passive.

In this case, putting in a raise might be aggressive, but it might just be loose. Even moving in might be either.

If you're on the BTN, CO, or HJ I see no reason to flat a hand like 87s. With 6 limps I make it like $22. Get the pot heads up, steal it on a ton of flops when it checks to you and you have any sort of equity.

You need, need position with these kinds of hands, both for stealing when you miss and getting paid when you hit. If you're limping and nut peddling you're playing slot machine poker.

What do you do when a raise has 0% of getting it heads up?

Raise bigger until you find that number.

If you're stealing, it doesn't matter how much equity you have. It matters how much HE has.

If you raise bigger and that number is clearly larger than 35, do you keep raising bigger?

If I were at that table getting multiway action raising to >35, I'd probably tighten up significantly and start raising JJ-AA,AK as high as they'll call. I'd try to set up SPR<5 and get my money in on any safe flop.

I'd be shocked (and delighted) if I could raise >35 and get multiple callers.

No joke, used to play in a game where open raises of 17.5x got an average of 1.7 callers. I actually was trying with another player to determine the max open that consistently got at least one and less than 3 callers, and that was the number we finally determined was the sweet spot.

Guess what? I still often flatted smaller raises pre and/or overlimped with speculative hands. Why? Because these players were not fit-or-fold post, and their leaks post flop were at least as bad as their pre-flop ones.

Moral of the story is, be like water. You must adjust to what the table conditions are, rather than stating "X is bad poker" as an absolute.

our goal is always to get it heads up pre or at most two callers, but it doesnt mean we need to get it heads up 100% of the time or we messed up the hand.

Nothing wrong with check folding otf for those times when we do get 5 callers with zero equity but we shouldnt limp for the fear of multiple callers when we have a raising hand especially in position.