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Full house on the board facing all-in Full house on the board facing all-in

09-10-2014 , 04:51 PM
OK, this is my first post. Criticism is welcome--just prefacing my ineptitude. Anyways I have this memory of a hand that happened in one of my first cash games, 1/2 NL full ring. I confess I am making some of it up but I think hearing how you would respond to this or exploit this concept will be helpful to me.

I had been at the table for an hour so no great reads on people besides their pre-flop tightness. I did not have much of a table image--had been taking down pots in late position selectively playing hands in early/middle. Villain was playing similarly.

Me (hardly a hero): $100 (I'm a poor college student...)
Villain: Around $200.

Hi-jack (villain) calls. I open-raise AJ on the button to $7.
Folds to villain, who 3bets me to $15. I call.

Pot: $33
Flop: KKQ

Villain bets $15. I call. {I feel this is a call or fold--lots of hands in his range hit this flop, I only beat his Ax hands, and I only have $85 left in my stack. Maybe I should have folded but I have some decent draws}

Turn: Q

Villain checks, I check behind.

River: K

Villain pushes. ??

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The situation I am in is this--it's a pretty big pot, and though I am not excessively pot committed, I have a hard time folding. Essentially, he needs pocket aces (of which I have one) or the fourth king to beat me. His line works with pocket aces but doubtful that he limped in unless he is a super sneaky and also terrible poker player. A value bet on a paired queen followed by a check on a made full house and then an all-in bluff on his now irrelevant full house seems pretty plausible to me. Also, small chance he is also playing AJ.

Either way, the big question here is--when do you call an all-in when you're playing the board??? Besides 4 of a kind an an ace on the board obviously.

Side question: Do you push every time if you have a king in this situation?? I feel like that is max value... Who doesn't cringe at folding to a board like that? (plus I assume nobody would fold pocket queens or pocket aces since I am considering calling with nothing)...

Final note: The careless play, gross over-bets and over-calls, and amount of money thrown around at 1/2 tables IN MY EXPERIENCE THUS FAR seems waaaaaaaaay more severe than what people talk about seeing on this forum. That confuses me. I have made unbelievable profit almost exclusively betting my strong hands and nothing else. As of recent, I have gotten bored with that and am trying to take my game to the next level but I feel like it is useless at 1/2 tables. I also hesitate to stray away from my putting big money on my big hands because of how much money I've made. As I said I am a poor college student so doubling my investment after a few hours at a table is pretty fantastic, and I've done that each of the 4 times I've sat down at a 1/2 table. So I guess another side note.... Am I the luckiest person on the planet who happens to play poker with ATM machines or am I the next Tom Dwan? If you rearrange some of the letters in my middle name and pronounce it strangely, it sort of sounds like Dwan....

Last edited by mike5693; 09-10-2014 at 05:02 PM.
Full house on the board facing all-in Quote
09-10-2014 , 05:00 PM
What is his limp in lp/rr range?

On the flop I feel it's shove or fold. I don't think I am ever just calling.
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09-10-2014 , 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanhowe
What is his limp in lp/rr range?

On the flop I feel it's shove or fold. I don't think I am ever just calling.
Pretty expansive. He re-raised a lot to try to steal pots, especially heads-up ones.

Shove or fold? I just don't see it. That's $85 to win $48 (assuming the only way I win is with a fold). I win that 2/3 times and I'm good, I get that logic, but I honestly feel like I make more money in 1/2 tables by waiting for the hand. PLUS: I feel like people at 1/2 tables don't really respect all-ins very much. I respect theirs, because people push with the nuts. But I swear every time someone pushes it goes to showdown. People love calling all-ins. Have I just sat down at weird tables?
Full house on the board facing all-in Quote
09-10-2014 , 05:19 PM
Easy fold IME. I hate calling to chop, especially calling over bets. He l/rr so AK and AA are clearly in his range.

Also think you mangled this hand pre-flop. $7 with one limper is barely even a pot-sweetener in my 1/2 game. Make it 12-15 to go. That way, if you get called you can happily stack off when you hit top pair or a flush draw. If everyone folds that's a fine result too w/ AJs. You're also way too shallow to call a 3-bet, even a very small one. Either fold, or if you really think V is FOS, 4-bet him.
Full house on the board facing all-in Quote
09-10-2014 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike5693
Pretty expansive. He re-raised a lot to try to steal pots, especially heads-up ones.
Has he l/rr'ed a lot? That's usually more nutted than a simple 3-bet. If he has been trying to steal a lot of pots pre, I like a 4-bet to $50 or so pre and then getting it in on pretty much every flop.
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09-10-2014 , 05:28 PM
Fold
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09-10-2014 , 07:06 PM
Fold. You will see quads in this spot. It just happens. Actually, has happened to me 3 times in the last 3 weeks and luckily I got out cheap. 1/2 is just a weird thing.
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09-18-2014 , 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaconMaker
Fold. You will see quads in this spot. It just happens. Actually, has happened to me 3 times in the last 3 weeks and luckily I got out cheap. 1/2 is just a weird thing.
i just don't see a guy that limp/raises a hand like ace king pre-flop then proceeding to bet into top set on the flop.

if everyone folded to an all-in with trips on the board like that, it seems very profitable to push every time there's trips on the board.
Full house on the board facing all-in Quote
09-18-2014 , 11:47 PM
Shove flop.

Fold river. 9 times out of 10 he has the case K here.

Edit, also you can easily have a king here.
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09-19-2014 , 01:15 AM
As played, call. Unlikely this guy flats pre with AK or KK. I see this full house board about ~15% of my sessions and maybe one person had the quads. Every single time, someone bluffs at a made full house and I often see players fold on the river in this spot. Quads are quads regardless if you have two in the hole or one. I make this call every time and don't mind paying off quad kings.
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09-19-2014 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheddarbob
As played, call. Unlikely this guy flats pre with AK or KK. I see this full house board about ~15% of my sessions and maybe one person had the quads. Every single time, someone bluffs at a made full house and I often see players fold on the river in this spot. Quads are quads regardless if you have two in the hole or one. I make this call every time and don't mind paying off quad kings.
He didn't flat pre, villain 3bet.

Also, what do you mean you don't mind paying off quads? So you can possibly chop? What advice is this?
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09-19-2014 , 11:40 AM
As played OP, fold. Calling to possibly chop and never win is NEVER EVER a good reason to call.
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