Hero 1/2 live 4 handed

34o in bb.

Utg limps, btn limp, sb limp, hero checks

Hero looks very LAG. Monster stack of almost $2000. Has shown a few garbage hands, but a lot more premium hands. Been playing position and pushing people around often. Exploiting a lot of players based on reads. The other players know I'm capable of bluffing.

Utg is a very very bad player. Overvalues hands, will call down with top pair bad kicker. Definitely has no idea of bet sizing or pot odds. Has been to the ATM 5 times to pull out $200. Keeps complaining how he's down a grand. I've been exploiting him with large bet sizes and overbets for my value hands. He has been trying to play back at me.

Btn is a very quiet and bad player. Nowhere near as bad as utg, he has a fold button, but still bad. He limps a lot pre. He doesn't play every hand though. Haven't seen anything weird like 94o, J2o. Though he also overvalues top pair.

Utg has $400, btn has $200. Sb doesn't matter for this hand.

Flop ($8) 34Tr
Sb checks, hero bets $5, utg and btn call.

Turn ($23) 4c bringing bd club draw
Hero bets $20, utg and btn call.

River ($83) Qx
Hero bets $80, utg tanks for a little while then shoves for $370, btn tanks for a while then shoves for ~$150, hero?

I know what they say about limped pots, but they will never ever have TT or QQ here. Q4 I think raises the turn but it's possible they'd flat. T4 is the only hand that makes sense that we are behind that one of them would 100% flat. They are capable of playing something like that too. Playing 4 handed this hand is really good but it's also a limped pot with players who could play anything

My money gets in the pot before the button's does. Easy call. If someone has TT, nice hand sir.

Call.

Grunch from title alone: Almost never folding a FH 4-handed.

Post-grunch edit: Definitely not considering a fold here. I'm sorry if you got coolered, but I don't think this is close. No one should have QQ in their range, so you should only lose to TT, and even it is an unlikely limp pre. Meanwhile, you beat the one combo of 33, and chop with the one other combo of 34 in terms of other boats, and both players could have random spazz. Easy call.

Given the Hero and Villain descriptions, this is the exact type of spot where Villains flop/turn big hands and wait for the Hero to put as much money in the pot as possible before raising. They're mad that Hero has been pushing them around and want revenge.

So yea, I seriously consider folding. Don't know if I would, but this isn't a fist-pump-jam spot.

The problem with that is that their definition of "big hands" in this situation can easily include overpairs.

Fist pump snap call. Folding is a massive, massive mistake. If the decision were close the suits of your hand/board matter to determine which of T4s, Q4s, 43s combos are possible.

Maybe they slowplay more often due to your image but good 4x are effective nuts from their perspective. A4 is almost always jamming river. They can't both have a 4x, but BU is less likely to have slowplayed being the overcaller and he can have trouble folding a hand like QT.

You're right and this is also where live reads can be deceiving. If someone believes an overpair, top pair, or trips is the nuts, then a live read will say they think they have a lock.

That is why I answered the way I did. Hero needs to tank and run through the hand and make his best judgment. All I'm sure of is that the decision isn't clear at all.

This is exactly how I felt about the hand. This obviously isn't some weird bluff, and yes he could do it with some other 4x that isn't a boat. With him being such a bad player and how much he had been complaining how he's down $1000 I could actually see him raising to $200 instead of shoving if he had 4x that wasn't a boat or top 2. Couldn't rule out a shove with 4x though since he shouldn't be afraid of much. Honestly one of the biggest factors of me calling was the fact that the btn called as well. It was just one of those spots where I felt beat. I tanked for a while before finally calling. He in fact did have T4o, and the btn had 33.

I didn't think I could fold especially being 4 handed.. but it didn't feel like a clear fist-pump-jam spot.

Yea, I lost a similar hand in a 2/5 game 3-4 years ago. The only differences being 4 players to the river, a $3k pot and a runner-runner beat. That sort of thing makes you think about what happened and remember it.

I'm calling as well, can't find any reason to fold.

They can have all two pairs.
You said UTG was playing back at you, this looks like exactly that.
Bit worried about BTN, but we're probably still ahead of his range and even if we lose we can still profit by winning vs UTG.
BTN might also realize UTG is playing back at you and call looser for that reason.

I disagree with everyone stating QQ & TT are not in UTG's range.
I think they can definitely be 25-50% of the time.

Even then, I'm not folding here.

Isn't the general rule: if you can find a value hand that you beat, you should probably call?

In a limped pot? Highly doubtful. Not impossible, but not 50% of the time.

It's a snap call man, sorry someone open limped with an overpair turned boat.

Sorry it wasn't the other way around so that you at least got the side pot, but I guess V2 wasn't bad enough to limp T4o. That hand, esp from UTG, is just ridic.

*CO, not that it makes it much better. I just wish people wouldn't use "UTG" for positions that have their own names.

Never folding. Suits of your cards and the ones on the board matter a little bit for figuring out what combos he can have. T4o and q4o are unlikely, so based on the suits on board there may only be 1 or 2 combos of those hands left.

If you got coolered that sucks but we can never consider folding here. It would be a massive mistake