I feel like I've run into this same spot often recently and want to gauge how others navigate limped pots 4-5 ways. Sometimes I'm over limping in LP with suited connectors or K3s type hands, and sometimes I'm just checking the button.

When there's a dry flop (example: K84r) and I'm sitting with top pair trash kicker, I have no idea what to do. I have no idea if I'm best but I'd also like to deny equity to worse hands.

So far I'm resigned to check/calling or check/folding if I'm in EP, and betting from LP. Still don't really have a sample size to know for sure if I'm doing the right thing though.

Fundamentally, you shouldn't have any overlimps at all, but I guess if you're playing with people who never raise, you could throw some in. K3s is just junk so fold.

You will get into these spots as BB though, and usually it's best to check. The drier the flop, the less equity you need to protect against, though even if I had K3hh on a KJTss, I'd still probably check. If you have something like J9o on a 954 flop, you have more reason to bet for value/protection.

I started a thread on this exact same problem a little while ago. I said that my approach was to check and fold to any aggression, except by the player last to act (who is more likely to try a steal/think that his second pair is good/etc.). I just don't like being out of position with a hand that is unlikely to improve and I'll have to call the turn AND the river to find out if I'm good.

The only way I'm getting to the flop in EP with K3s is if I'm in the BB, nobody raised & I'm just folding OTF to any aggression. I don't play hands in LP that I don't feel are strong enough to bet top pair OTF when checked to.

Concerning SCs, I am of the understanding that when you call PF with SCs, you should be able to expect to make 25x your PF investment when you hit a flop & make your hand. If I have 4 limpers & I'm on the button with 78s+ & there is no rake when there's no flop, I'm looking at making 5.5 BBs if I raise & get all folds, or at least get it HU...hopefully. So I ask myself how many of these limpers, if any, would call a bet of $22.00.

Just fold K3 hands pf with 100 BB effective stacks at a full table most of the time. If you are playing SC to x/f if you miss completely or x/c if you have a draw or marginal hand, you are are better off just folding them pf. If you are going to play them, raise pf if the table is going to play fit or fold on the flop. Anything is a negative EV situation. That's why you're having problems with them.

Let's do this again

K3s is a standard open from the BTN as far as I know
I'm looking at a BTN RFI chart for live games right now and it's opening all suited K's

I do think we should tighten our iso range at least a bit, especially against multiple limpers.

So probably not iso raising K3s here, but can we flat it?
We could win some pots IP with TP and we can win big pots if we hit two pair or a flush.
Not sure if we can/should ever bluff, especially since the flush draw bluff has become so obvious these days and we're gonna see the flop with 7 people.

I do think we're putting ourselves into a though spot by flatting, but is it really going to be -EV? I honestly don't know and would like to know.


Since OP said LP and not BTN, I do agree this is an easy fold from the CO.

I'd probably start iso-raising from the CO with like KTs maybe K9s
From the BTN with K9s maybe K8s


Would like to hear some thoughts on what makes this hand a bad flat pre.
What kind of hands should we flat then? (Against this table full of limpers.)

This is sort of where I find myself. I think there is value to be found at a weak table with a late position overlimp.

I don't mind being in a tough spot either honestly, I just hope to get enough info over time so it's just a little less tough. The issue for me is that each scenario is so different because of board textures, positioning, limp ranges, that there's no way of knowing if I won the bingo game.

K3s was admittedly a bad example, but here's one in my session yesterday:

Three players limp, I have T8dd in the SB and complete. Flop is T64 two hearts. I think I'm ahead at least 50% of the time but should I really lead out?

Completing is obviously fine, but I wouldn't start betting a hand this weak OOP into multiple players with a huge SPR.
I'd just try to get to showdown as cheaply as possible here.

I'm always trying to move from the weak-passive novice I was years ago, to a more TAG style. Doyle told me (not personally, I read the book) that you shouldn't go broke in limped pots (I don't always listen).

I'm playing more hands in position and coming in for more raises than limps. I'm trying not to overcall. If it's good enough to play, a 3! is better (in a vacuum, without considering table dynamics).

With Top pair - trash kicker, I'm happy to get one street of value, and it's easier to do when you are IP and checked to. Heck, you can let the flop check through and bet the turn if checked to again. How many players in EP can flop 2pr/set and check the turn after watching the flop check through?

As I take notes on my casino play, it's much easier to see that the big pots really determine the outcome of my night and that those difficult situations are almost always easily avoided. As a lot of the experts say... fold pre.