1/2 local casino, hero just sat down at table for half hour and had been playing very aggressively, won around $50.
V is a 60ish white male, very OMC style. Saw him limp everything including AK and fold to CBET like every time.
This hand hero was dealt AKs on button. 4 players limped including V in EP. Hero made it $16, only V and another player called. $50 in the pot.
Flop A K T rainbow, V led $60 over bet, the other player tank fold, Hero?
Hero tanked and just called. Turn brick, V shoved for 130. Hero had 160ish behind. Hero???

I think you have to call since he limps his AK

I just don't see described villain overbet donking into you without top two or better. There's only 4 combos left of AK, 16 still for QJ. Even with that, is he really going ham with AK on this board? Most everyone notices when a possible straight is on board, especially face cards.

On the other hand, you've only been there half an hour so you might not be getting the whole picture. If he's OMC but poker savvy he may be taking the initiative with AT as well, which adds 6 combos that you beat. So, at best, you're dominating his two pair, or at worst he's made the straight. Seems like a decision to make on the flop, and as nitty as it sounds if I trusted my reads I'd let it go. There have to be better spots than calling a flop over bet from such a villain and subsequent turn shove, even if you have top two on a straight board. You're basically left hoping he's overvaluing a worse two pair.

As played, I'd fold, but I would've given up on the flop first.

call

30 minutes is really nothing in terms of labeling someone as a true omc just because he limps alot including AK and plays fit or fold.

your tank to the donk bet showed a lot of weakness to him, if you were gona fold it would have been on the flop and theres less than a pot size bet left. If he was jamming it for 200 bb then yes fold but the PSR is so slim

Disgusting spot

It feels so dirty calling hoping to chop. If we can at all put ATs in his range we can make a crying call.

I hate calling flop merely to fold to a turn shove for a PSB. I want to say that we should not call flop if we are planning to c/f to a turn shove.

So I think we are in the rare position of needing to decide if we are going to play for stacks on the flop and if the answer is yes, we call the flop raise and if the answer is no, we fold. And I don't know what universe I could ever fold top two on this board for under 100bb. Ugghhh, this spot just feels super dirty. Like having a dream you are getting a BJ from Sophia Vergara only to wake up and discover your dog is licking your mushroom.

As played , Crying call

Lol bro u so funny...... Well I had the same feeling like you said and I made the crying call...
Result: He showed his 10s and announced the reason of his overbet was to charge "draws". Oh well what a lovely OMC....

Vs line does not compute to anything we reasonably beat. This is one of those few hands I fold and tell no one about. Oh, and shield my eyes and whipe my memory if he shows a bluff.

Why couldn't he have KT for two pair?

I think QJ is actually not all that likely because OMC types will often slowplay it. They won't make huge bets with it which could scare everyone away. So his huge bets tell me he is afraid, and he isn't going to be afraid if he has the nuts. If there was a flush draw, THEN I could see him betting big, but there was no flush draw for him to worry about.

Even this villain might raise PF with AA or KK and those hands are really unlikely with 2 aces and 2 kings out. TT is a possibility but we have some outs.

I'd call the turn.


Edit: Also timid players are often afraid if they have the nuts and there aren't any flush draws to worry about. They slowplay out of fear because they are afraid that betting will chase everyone away.

When you are sitting there quietly with gray hair and folding/checking/calling on hand after hand, and then all of a sudden you shock everyone by betting or raising, it can be scary for the OMC when he has the nuts because other players are more likely to think "Wow THAT GUY is raising?". But if the OMC just slowplays instead, his checking and calling won't stick out like a site thumb.

I'm sure he also thought the pot was big enough and was "happy to win what's there."

by theory OMC here is very nutted but i don't know how I can fold here.

I've been looking over my notes and I've decided to implement something in my game for this year.

Once I 100% ID a player as a bonafide nit or scared money player, I will 100% fold any non nut hand to their aggressive actions (big bets or raises) unless I have the odds to draw to the nuts.

What if I have the 2nd or 3rd nuts?

I'm going to fold.

I think the math on this is pretty sound. Nits (true nits not the watered down versions players carelessly toss about) have such a low aggression factor and VPIP and PFR that it can't hurt us to deny them action. If we can set mine them fine but post flop, if they are raising us it is probably optimal to just surrender and let it go, especially if the pot isn't big yet and we can get away before emotionally getting committed to the hand.

So from this day forward, I'm instituting my program. I need a catchy name. Hmmmm. The Nit No-No program??? Say No to Nits.??? The F.U.N. program (FU Nits )???

In any event, 3rd, 4th, 5th nut hands are no longer in my calling range vs these players. In fact, 2nd nut hands will probably not make the cut against them.

The key to this though will be having an accurate profile and read and precision in your assessments.


So in a word, F them

Yes. We exploit the nitty OMCs by folding to their over-bets. Sometimes it's hard, but you gotta do it.

Nice thread

Almost all the people that I regularly play with who I would fold to, are not nits not at all. Most of them are pretty loose. But they're also very very very passive.