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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 10-22-2017, 10:33 AM   #1
chunkOchips
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Fold, Call, Raise? Am I real bad?

1/2 NL Casino.

Sat down at table about 30 mins prior. Villain is 30ish blue collar white guy. Kind of fishy/passive player. Calling everything pre, call/folding flop/turns, but hasnt raised any hands until this one. Not real sure about my image to him. Couple others at table know and greet me when I sit. I havent played any hands outside of a limp/3! that unfortunately folded everyone. OTTH.

$175 effective. Hero has K Q in mid position. Usually raise if I enter this hand, but I opted to limp after my limp/reraise hand that just happened. Villain raises CO to $12. I call and we are HU.

Flop ($27) J 7 3 I check. V bets $25. I call.
Turn ($82) 10x. I check. V bets $35. Hero ($135 roughly behind)?
I will complete HH to completion after responses.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:37 AM   #2
JDT123
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Re: Fold, Call, Raise? Am I real bad?

Tough between calling or jamming turn. Do we expect to get paid off by villain if the heart comes? Do we jam in to him on heart rivers? Does he also jam the river with AJ+ if we check to him?

I think I prefer jamming but it's close.

Also, definitely raising pre myself
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:46 AM   #3
NutJob72
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Re: Fold, Call, Raise? Am I real bad?

Raise pre fold flop. If villain doesn't have A♡ is he putting more money in if fourth heart comes? Are you willing to shovel chips in if it does. RIO spot in my opinion.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:47 AM   #4
NutJob72
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Re: Fold, Call, Raise? Am I real bad?

Could also argue to raise flop.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:09 PM   #5
Rhombo
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Re: Fold, Call, Raise? Am I real bad?

Raise or fold flop, raising exploits over cbetting in this spot so without that read I just fold. AP call turn. Don't fold river if you hit straight or TP, but watch out for a huge bet if you complete your flush.

Limping pre is a sin.
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Old 10-22-2017, 05:23 PM   #6
chunkOchips
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Re: Fold, Call, Raise? Am I real bad?

I jam and miss. V has KK. Its whatever on getting stacked, but its a weird spot. Price isnt right for the call without implied odds and not sure Im getting paid on flush or A. Having the Kh isnt great to bluff/shove with either. Fold equity is def there and my hand had enough equity that it was close, but I think this might have been a fold.
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Old 10-22-2017, 05:31 PM   #7
BackDoorFlush
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Re: Fold, Call, Raise? Am I real bad?

Limping pre is terrible. I would fold pre before I would limp.

Think about this OP: If you had raised pre, and V 3!, then you would have folded and you wouldn't have punted your stack.
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:45 PM   #8
chunkOchips
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Re: Fold, Call, Raise? Am I real bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush View Post
Limping pre is terrible. I would fold pre before I would limp.

Think about this OP: If you had raised pre, and V 3!, then you would have folded and you wouldn't have punted your stack.
Do you really think about hands like that? I just dont think that brings us to whether or not our actions are correct.

Aside, I almost always raise there, but I was raising a lot and just limp reraised one or two hands before. Hand I limp reraised I almost got a guy to 4! me light (I had AA). Limping KQo isnt horrible.
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:23 PM   #9
BackDoorFlush
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Re: Fold, Call, Raise? Am I real bad?

^^^KQo plays terribly in multiway pots. Not to mention you are in MP, which means that you have poor relative position.
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:58 PM   #10
pocketzeroes
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Re: Fold, Call, Raise? Am I real bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunkOchips View Post
Do you really think about hands like that? I just dont think that brings us to whether or not our actions are correct.

Aside, I almost always raise there, but I was raising a lot and just limp reraised one or two hands before. Hand I limp reraised I almost got a guy to 4! me light (I had AA). Limping KQo isnt horrible.
No raise/fold pre is correct, and yes that is a valid reason - when you get 3bet and you're OOP, unless you're against someone that's super wide, then KQo should be an easy fold to 3bet... And yes, by doing this you avoid a lot of situations where you're OOP dominated by QQ+, AQ+. When you limp/call KQo, you're just asking to be in these spots 100% of the time cards are dealt that way.

My policy is that I almost never limp except in situations where I think a limp/RR is likely, or in situations where IO just feels too good to fold and my hand too weak to fold (like maybe I'd overlimp 57s or 44 OTB). I think getting rid of a lot of your limping range is in general a good idea... Unless you want to have a balanced/merged limp/rr range, I think arguments can definitely be made for that at a loose 1/2 game.

Basically KQo, KJo, QJo, QTo should never ever be played as a limp/call pre. And I'd say the same about the suited variants, though they can be a bit harder to fold to a small 3bet... Limp/calling is generally the nut low. I have never seen a player who is obviously a big winner in the game limp/call very much preflop.

AP, probably folding flop. Too much RIO and no IO, especially OOP. If you're drawing to a flush or pair on a monotone board, generally only do that with NFD, especially OOP. X/r/f feels a little bit better than x/c, but I think x/f is best.
AP, probably calling turn. You're getting good odds on a call, and I just don't see all that many bet/folds in V's range here.

Last edited by pocketzeroes; 10-22-2017 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:33 PM   #11
classycarl
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Re: Fold, Call, Raise? Am I real bad?

As pretty much everyone else said raise preflop! now that i got that off of my chest I don't think I shove the turn. He call 100% of the time imo because most passive fish arent betting into you that light. The sad part is your straight might be bad if you get there because he could've flopped a smaller flush or could have a the A of hearts and a pair making your flush draw bad.
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