This hand is short and sweet. Hero is 20 with headphones kid. I had just busted AA vs turned 2 pair and this is my 2nd hand after rebuying. $300 effective
I put a $5 straddle OTB. 4 limpers, CO raises to $25, I make it $80, HU to the flop
Flop is JJ4r
V shoves $220 into ~$180
Hero?

Some info on this V, I've played with him for a little bit and be seems to donk bet when he has a piece of the flop but I've also seen him show down 3rd pair after betting 2 or 3 streets. He's also really bad at sizing, min raisin and betting 1/5th pot. What do you guys think his range is here? AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AJ?

easy call

I call.

Pre-flop was too small.

Why would we go any bigger preflop?

Can't see any argument to fold flop.

Calling. I'm okay with flop sizing.

Ok good was just making sure I wasn't making a tilt call against this V who might only be doing this with a J. He ended up having AJ here FWIW

Sorry, just saw Hero was straddle. Heck, I go $125. He just lost w/ AA, he's the straddle -- let's get some money in there! Nobody will think he has AA again.

Trivial stack off for me. Thanks to our big raise preflop we created a HU SPR of ~1 which we should never fold postflop. And most villain's don't open jam the ~nuts in these spots (although some do some of the time, just don't be results oriented).

ETA: I'm fine with the preflop sizing and would actually consider going slightly smaller; I mostly aim to give opponents poor ~8:1 IO for ~setmining hands and our sizing easily accomplishes that (and more).

GcluelessNLnoobG

I'm going against the grain here.

If you didn't 3! pre, I would call.

Since you did 3! pre, I would fold as played.

Most people 3! with JJ+, AK at this level (your range).

His jam is great if that's your 3! range and Villain thinks this is the case.

Do you think he would open shove this flop with QQ? I wouldn't.

Snap call

That's what I was asking, what is his range. Like I said he's not that good of a player. He might have QQ and see no A or K one thinks he's good. Who said he was thinking about ranges?

Pre too small. 100 seems fine. Obviously can't fold for a psb.

If he is a decent player and flats QQ pre, he would not ship vs your likely 3! range unless he has you beat (Jx+).

If he is not a great player, I could see him re-raising your pf 3! with QQ (lolz I have big pair *grunt* all-in).

If he is a terrible player, he could be shipping flop with 88/99/TT because he doesn't know what to do with that hand, but this is with cream of the crop bad players.

Basically, I think there are more Jx combos here than underpairs that would be willing to jam all-in on this flop.

I fold and wait for a better spot. Bad players always donate back to the game...as long as they don't leave.

Snap call, yes I saw the results.

The only hand he never has here is JJ. I can see a lot of hands showing up here, mostly decent pairs and and Jx but he should have limited Jacks from the call pre like AJo and suited broadways. Really he should have no Jx IMO but that’s how low stakes roll.

Also his shove is pretty bad IMO, he has the effective nuts and 3 streets to GII, he should check and let you bluff before jamming it in. You can fold AK here plus if you have 3bet bluffs in your range they all fold to the shove.

He called $80 pre with AJ and open shipped flop.

Really easy call.

Suggesting otherwise is ludicrous

What if we swapped places with the Villain?

This hand is short and sweet. Villain is 20 with headphones kid. He had just busted AA vs turned 2 pair and this is his 2nd hand after rebuying. $300 effective
Villain put a $5 straddle OTB. 4 limpers, Hero raises to $25 (with AJ), Villain makes it $80, (Hero Calls), HU to the flop
Flop is JJ4r
Hero shoves $220 into ~$180

Analysis: Bad call pre, but as played, I like this open ship for max value - looks bluffy and we can get called by all overpairs. If Villain had TT/99/AK/AQ we would just get 1 street of cbet value unless improved, we block AK, AQ, so Villain less likely to have it, etc., etc.

Unless I have history with somebody, a 3! at low stakes is almost always a premium hand. In the handful of times this is not the case, the -EV decision is easily made up by all the other times where you play based on this assumption.

Flame away.

instacall.. He should have KK here a large part of the time.

That's pretty rotten bad luck. Have better luck next time (sincerely).

If he has QQ and sees no A or K and thinks he's good then why is he bombing the pot? He doesn't have to be thinking about ranges when you're not thinking about anything. He just shoved. Does he want a call or a fold? Hint: I'm a 20something headphones kid and he's not that good a player is not an answer to the question.

(so much lol itt btw)

Having QQ and not seeing an A or a K and bombing here is what makes him a bad player. Essentially, he's bombing here because he doesn't want to see an A or a K, because he won't know what to do. A bad player wants the fold, or if he's called and loses, he wants a story that he got it in when he was ahead. If he's called and holds, then he gets two things. He gets to feel vindicated because he just pwned that donk, and he gets negative reinforcement/rewarded for bad behavior.

Honestly, half the community here is built with this mentality at it's core.

So he's open shipping QQ here because he's bad. Interesting. Why is he open shipping AJ here? Don't tell me. Let me guess.

This thread is the badreglogic equivalent to the quoted fishlogic. Yeah, we set 200 dollars on fire, but at least we can go call the guy stupid with our internet friends.

One thing I realized about poker is that sometimes there's no such thing as a bad play, because if you induce the V to do what you want, who cares if it looks bad if you got him to call/fold as you intended?

If you did the same move but on a different V and you didn't get the action you wanted, *then* you can say it was a bad move because it didn't work out. It's V-oriented imho.

Fold if you're a huge nit who only 3bets QQ+ or KK+ I guess. Otherwise call.

Relevant: hero's perceived 3! range

Less relevant: hero's actual 3! range

Not relevant: you're awesome so you 3! wide

This thread keeps getting loler and loler.