1st post, am ready for some tough love.

1/3, Hero 400 and covered, just sat down, has a 2 hour history with Villan from previous session, who appears to be abc and a little sticky on small bets but will release on 75-100+ pressure on marginal hands.

On previous session Hero opened for 20 with 78 suited in LP, flopped nut straight in position and Villan led thru Hero thru river, Hero's river raise finished off Villan's 280 stack. Villan was suprised with moderately desquised atraight. My read is that Villan is quality individual who enjoys playing a few hours occasionally and doesn't want to throw away her stack every session.

OTTH

Hero just sat down, 1st orbit (400 and covered). UTG + 2 AK opens for 20

Villan CO Calls, Button calls. I get negative vibe from Villan, she has frown, obviously remembers previous encounter, this hand is pretty similar

Flop (Pot 64) Q J 5

Hero (380) bets 35

Villan raises to 85, Button folds to Hero who calls

Turn (Pot 234) 7

Hero checks, Villan bets 125

What's my line and comments on my flop? Please provide input on my lack of posting skill, I will try to improve.

Lastly, I am a 60+ yo (go ahead, call me OMC) who has a little over 600 hrs of LLSNL, beginning in 2009, and am definitely a rank newbie. I have lurked these pages for a few years. If the board members indicate that there is some interest in my foray into LLSNL, I am considering posting a summary of my experiences thus far including my efforts (or lack thereof) reading and learning the game.

If there is some interest, where would I post it? Beginners, Goals & Challenges, or other. My position is that if I join a community and ask for feedback, I'll attempt to contribute in return. Even though I'm not the brightest bulb on the porch, some even newer players might find shortcuts around my mistakes.

Regards, Cerebus

First of all you're not OMC because you posted a hand on the internet

Smallish flop bet is fine. I expect to get called here a ton, not necessarily a bad thing. Shoving flop would be +ev.

AP I call getting 3:1 and try to hit.

I shove all my chips into the pot when she raises the flop.

Ship flop

To the people saying ship the flop, why? I get that you might get AQ fold, but you get owned by QJ, 55 and maybe JJ. All the worse draws fold as well. I prefer flat the flop raise. As played
call the turn, there's no merit to doing anything else.

Totally agree. It's easy for people to recommend these plays from behind the monitor, but re-shoving over a flop raise for your whole stack is not an easy (or wise) decision. Live low stakes players are not making this move with worse draws or complete air unlike online, so you are essentially getting it in bad vs a set/2p.

I think you played it fine, and the continued aggression on the turn indicates a very strong hand and you can let it go.

Actually its very easy in this situation. This is a villain who saw hero raise 87s yesterday. When you raise hands like that people think you are nuts and you will get played back at with weak hands. Other than QQ/JJ , there are no better hands for hero to have here to shove his chips back in villains face.

Hero has pretty good equity vs AQ/QJ/set....and some serious FE vs that small flop raise, especially when villain could be raising fairly lite here. Trying to check/call with a draw OOP sucks.

We have ace high OOP. Getting worse draws to fold isn’t great but it isn’t terrible either because we’re going to lose the pot unimproved a lot. There also aren’t many worse draws.

If we get Qs to fold it’s printing money. Either way we have great equity.

Are you serious? What games are you playing where raising a suited connector in LP gets you labelled as nuts lol.

Well most 2+2ers think its -EV to open a suited connector, so imagine what the avg passive poker player thinks. If you cant shove all in in this spot on the flop I dont know what to say to you.

You are giving a live recreational player too much credit, taking notes and remembering small details like that (maybe 95o sucking out is memorable but 87s should not shock the hell out of anybody)

Also, description EVEN SAYS enjoys playing a few hours occasionally and doesn't want to throw away her stack every session. If she does have a hand like AQ and is making this move because of your crazy image, what makes you think she will fold now?

I'm not seeing any logic here.

You can shove here it's not horrible. Doesn't mean it's always the best play. I mean you're playing in a world where it's absolute nuts for someone to raise 87s, but all of a sudden this villain is raising the flop with all sorts of trash making shoving the best play. I doubt it.

What are you talking about dude....

You have 12 outs to the nuts and 2 streets to go. Vs a range of QJs, QJo, and 55, we have 42% equity. 42% equity vs that range! It just so happens that if we shove flop and get called, we've contributed another 345 to a final pot of 820, which is exactly 42%. If villain EVER folds, like even ONE FOLD EVER this play is +EV. If V has AQ we are ahead. If V has KK we are ahead.

With hands like this it's best to get it in on the flop. These spots are easy money. When the turn whiffs and you're facing a turn bet it gets more difficult because your equity drops off a cliff.

I think I probably shove here OTF. You probably have some FE and winning the pot OTF is an excellent outcome. You can never be in that bad of shape except against sets. You are guaranteed to see two more cards instead of having to make a difficult decision OTT.

These kind of moves make you tough to play against b/c V's won't know if you have a made hand or a draw. Aggression with strong draws pays off in the long run b/c people will tend to play more passively against you and thus be easier to read. Especially if you are an older gentleman, people think you are tight already, so using semi-bluffs to balance your strong value range seems to be the way to go.

Someone raising a SC pf and then stacking you is pretty memorable for LLSNL. That player wouldn't reside in my mind as a typical loose passive villain.

As played on the flop, there's 184 in the pot and a shove would give the villain about 2:1 odds to call. I don't think TP or an OP folds and we don't have enough information to assume that she'll raise the flop with second pair. A FD is unlikely since all the big cards are already accounted for. We will be +EV against the pairs and behind against the sets. I'd guess that if shoving is +EV, it isn't by a whole lot.

If you call, you're getting almost 4:1. I think, but can't be sure that you'd get one more bet out of the villain, so calling is also likely to be +EV.

Therefore, neither play is horrible. When in this situation, I suggest looking at what the effect will be on you if you lose your buyin. A pro player would just re-load from their bankroll and move on. However OP, you only play a couple of times a year and don't likely have a bankroll. You have a budget. If losing the BI is going to make you play differently, either from tilt or concerns you'll exceed your budget, then you are better off calling.

Finally, as for posting about your experience, I suggest the Poker Goals and Challenges forum. We're more set up for answering specific questions. The Beginners' Forum would shut down an on-going blog as well.

I usually like to leverage my big draws with sheer aggression when I feel I have a good amount of fold equity. When I'm raised in a HU pot by a non-maniac I usually don't expect to have much FE and tend to play these big draws more passively. My ideal situation with combo draws is in MW pots where enough dead money had built up the pot without any single player necessarily being strong, and I can use the size of the pot to put max pressure on with my stack and generally fold everyone out.

As played, I think it's totally fine in theory to jam it in if you want. Like I said though, I'd generally call in this spot, try to hit, and reevaluate Vs turn sizing. Either is okay though, I think you have enough equity where either line is fine. Being totally honest, how I'd play this hand really just depends on the type of mood I'm in that day, and the specific opponent I'm against. Some days I'll gladly 3! rip 150bb or so in with a nut combo draw, and other days I'll call and see a turn.

I typically limp/reraise AKs in EP, especially at my loose tables, especially since AKs plays so well if the pot simply ends up limping around. Not totally in love with our result as going 3ways creates an SPR of ~6 (where stacks can be played for trivially and yet we likely don't want to do that having given 22+ IO preflop) plus we're OOP to both opponents.

Stacks might be slightly too deep for this, but I might prefer a check/shove. We have good hand equity and this move should also have good FE. And there's decent amount of $$$ in the pot relative to stacks worth winning. Could also just check/raise a more normalish amount to shove any turn. If the flop checks thru, whatever, free card for our nice draw.

One of the problems with donking and then getting raised is that we feel much less confident about getting stacks in since most raises postflop lean towards big hands (at least in my experience). So I'm not exactly thrilled about reraising here, and yet at the same time I'm not loving being OOP and possibly whiffing the turn. But against players who aren't looking to throw their $400 stack away, I think I also just call and hope I'm given a good price on the turn. ETA: I'm more on the side of the team that is thinking we have little FE facing a flop raise plus rarely run into just TP; if a lot of your opponents are raising TP on the flop against an EP raise/cbetterintomultipleopponents, then much more reason to jam.

We probably have around 11 or 12 outs on the turn, so need a little over 3:1. We're getting pretty close to 3:1. I call, and shove the river if we bink; I believe we'll get paid off enough to make the turn call profitable.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Venice, apologies if my OP was unclear. Bankroll is not a concern and I now have time to play regularly. I will admit that putting the money out is not natural for me but am working on that issue.

Thanks for all the responses, here was my thought process as the hand played out. My 35 lead into a 60 pot was to bring along weaker draws and 1 pair hands. The raise to 85 surprised me a little as my read is that V is quite passive. I remember thinking immediately that V had 2pr+ so I called. Knowing that I'm beat, I checked the turn, hoping for a check back or small bet. V bets 125, I tank for 30-40 sec and decide I'm basically flipping with a call and have some implied odds.

HAND REULTS:

I call the 125 turn.

River (Pot 480) 9

Hero (170) check. V checks back, I show my busted draw and V shows QQ for a set.

Here is what I think I've learned:

In general, I have been playing big draws too passively and need to start showing more aggression. V could have folded me out on the turn with a larger bet. I am not taking advantage of FE in this type of situation with 2 streets left. In the future, I will give greater consideration to a stronger line.

Though this hand worked out fine, I have probably been leaking $$ to more aggressive opponents with my passive line on these draws. Thanks for everyone's input.

Regards, C

I don't think your conclusions are what I would take away in this hand. Mine would be:

1) Lots of opponents play extremely passively preflop with huge hands (and I'm not making a judgement on that, I'm just stating what I consider to be a fact). Just cuz we raised and got called, never rule out huge pairs (including JJ+, and yes, that includes AA/KK).

2) Flop raises (or postflop raises in general) from typical passive players not looking to give away large $400 stacks are ~nuttish. They typically aren't raising TP. Playing our draw here aggressively against this type of action ain't ideal, imo.

GimoG

I think you have to consider position strongly too, if you are OOP it's easier to ship it in aggressively, but in position there is a stronger argument for calling.

If V is passive, that's a very important read as we can eliminate some draws / weak pairs from her flop-raise range.

I think the issue is being out of position and not being able to realize equity very easily if you call the raise. You fold out some better hands with the flop 3b but probably not terribly often.

May I amend (or clarify) my conclusion? I have been playing big draws passively virtually 100% of the time, basically I've been a big calling station. I was trying to say that there are hands which I have not considered a more aggresive line. I am not suggesting that I should shove indiscriminately. Your points above are concise and easy to remember.

To all the responders, your posts brought into focus many nuances associated with playing big draws. There is a lot of meat in this thread which will take quite a bit of time to digest.

Thanks for sharing. C

If you want to view this as a pure mathematical play, then calling or shoving are both fine. But this is live low limit, villain has range advantage on this flop and has shown continued aggression flop and turn. You also have removed the 4 most likely cards vil would bluff with.

What bluffs does villain have here? You are shoving your entire stack into a value hand. Also, I think you still get paid off if you call and turn the nuts.

Villain has a range advantage on this flop? We’ve removed 4 cards?

???

Card removal = cards in our hand + on the board + exposed = no longer in the deck.
***AKQJh

Range advantage = villain called preflop and can have more nuttish combos than we can. More runouts favor villain as well.
***We have JJ-AA, maybe QJs if you open wide utg
***vil has JJ-QQ (live players are weird); 55, more combos of QJ, etc. Also nearly every turn card not a heart is bad for our range.