V1($350): Blue collar looking guy. No read on preflop ranges, but have seen him get out of line in a previous session.

Hero ($450): Young 20s WG. Tightest at the table.

Villain raises utg+2 $25 mp calls Hero flats KJ btn and BB calls

Flop (100): 8 9 9
Checks around

Turn (100): 4
BB checks, v bets 30 mp folds Hero calls BB folds

River (160): 2x
V bets 45. Hero ???

This seems like an obvious value raise that historically I might pass up on, but should I think about getting away from this ever? What's the plan?

Call > Shove > Fold.

I am waiting to hear you got coolered by AdXd, or 88 (I don't see any other hand he could have realistically that beats you here. 45 into 160 feels really small, like he is trying to get you to make a crying call here with the nuts. Your hand also feels super disguised so maybe he has something like Ad9x and thinks he is good. Based on stack sizes though, any raise from you that isn't a min raise might as well be a shove instead.

FYI stake is 2/4 sorry.


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Misread flop, but I would have bet it.

Raise/fold turn?

As played, I might raise/fold river, but I can get behind a flat. Not sure what worse hand is calling here.

Yeah you're right... I think it was the paired board that made me check. Like I would have to bet half pot since I would never bet for value more than that on this board and I just didn't think it would go through. I'm going through a FE scare rn because I'm not bluffing a lot and I just keep getting called. It seems to work in these bloated pots through. Stake is 2/4.


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Assuming this is a guy you aren't reading hard into, he looks like he is making a thin value bet trying to get value. Little over 25% psb isn't going to make anyone with a decent hand go anywhere. I don't think anything worse than a flush is calling if you raise. Call, and don't be surprised if you are beat here. The reason I am not going fold here is that as long as you could put him on AdkX, a couple of 9X, and few other hands, you have pretty good showdown value. You only have to be good here roughly 20% of the time to make this a decent call.

Well based on my HH I don't think I'm folding since I want to raise. I mostly want to be led away from this thinking if it's wrong. I'm aware of suck betting but I think mostly these bets reflect the strength of his hand.

I think his range here is 88-AA. Possibly A9d. He can't be that loose pre to have 9x or else I probably would've noticed. He also can't have Adxd or any fd because he 100% blasts off


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I assume you mean Ad9x. He could easily have best hand and has a lot of outs if you don't have a flush. He can definitly have the Ad with or without a flush and it would follow his turn logic, since he is blocking a lot of the more obvious flushes you can have. You also checked flop and only called turn, and you stated this V can get out of line. I think he can easily have AA/KK/AdXx, or even Kx9x. You know your villain better than we do, so you have to determine how likely is he to make this bet with complete air, and how likely is he to call a raise if he is? If you do raise, how are you reacting if he shoves?

Unfortunately I didn't plan that out too well. The chance of him having air should be close to 0. I have to raise to 175ish or shove to balance my bluffs if I do raise. He has 250 behind in my action so my stack sizes are a bit off. Can't see myself folding 125 if he shoves.

My thought process mainly consisted of the idea that the action in facing should leave v pretty wide and I was leaving money in the table by calling


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im unconvinced that we should be taking lines where we have to be folding King high flushes on single paired boards specifically against players who are described as recreational, not solid, and potential of getting out of line sometimes.

i just think its relatively common for a recreational player who can get out of line to over value flushes here. there arent even a ton of boats out there.

im raise/not folding .... aka raise/call.

eta: note that my approach is very different if villain is solid, or even at least unknown and seemingly competent.

etaa: i did not read the HH closely enough. didnt know villain opened utg+2. i would advocate raising smaller to get all his over pairs to call.

raise/folding looks more appealing given his new range (i was imagining villain calling a raise, where he can have many more flushes)

Part of that is determined by your definition of "air" I would consider AdAx is probably the worst nonair hand he can have, but at that stage, he is bluff catching. And yeah, stack size is relevant as if he shoves, you probably have to call on just pure sunk costs. It's why I lean call here. That's from a tight player, and honestly, I don't make a small bet like that on the river since I am getting checked up a lot with 9X and low flushes. You are getting the good odds to call, and I don't think there is enough reward to raise/shove here, unless you think he is never folding trips under any circumstances.

I am curious what grunge or other things say. Can't use those at work cause gambling

If you insist playing your draw, I would bet or raise the flop to see if he calls. From that action I would know where I stand. I don't think he's got a 9 for trips. Well, if he's not got a 9, what is he got?
Pocket 88 or a flush draw smaller then K? - See, that's the problem with paired boards when you got a draw. - It could be nasty.

I would say this: As soon as you see the flop is paired you should forget about your flush drawing. That flop was check around and you got your money card that can get you in trouble. Get used of not draw (FD or SD) on paired boards and you will be saving by "not losing". until the flop and before calling the turn bet you got only $25 interest in the pot. Why getting yourself in situations where you are NOT in command?

I will fold and not call his turn bet. Even if I make a mistake it's gonna be a small mistake in a small pot. Yes,......, fold!

Remember, this guy raised from UTG+2, so his range should not include many monsters. Maybe he raises 89, but it should be 88, 99, or the A-high flush, but we have the K and J.

Granted, this is a monster or a small hand making blocking bets, but I lean more toward blocking on river. If you have A-high flush or better, why not try to get some money on this board? Maybe he's scared of the FH with his A-high flush?

The more I think about it, the more I like a CIB on river. He's almost never raising w/o a full house or quads, and he might call with a 9 or AdAx, etc.

I agree with you about the blocking bet but those bets are for intelligent players that understand what's going on. We don't know what dude the villain is. He may be an idiot that thinks we want to take his pot away from his trips and he may raise us. We cannot afford to have a raise against us when the board is paired because we could make mistakes either way, folding the best or calling with the second best, and both mistakes will be in a big pot. Not good ..,

V also checked the flop. I very much doubt he has any 9's after that. Nor overpairs. Would he really give a free card to two opponents on a 899 with two diamonds? Lots and lots of turn cards really suck and he probably has the best hand with either a 9 or an overpair.

I think his range is really polarized on the river. He's either got a monster or not much. The small bet makes me lean toward monster, but I guess there's some chance it's a blocking bet with some marginal hand or just LLSNL V misplay.

I call it off, but we're beat a lot. Hopefully not quite 80% of the time though.

Oh, and I bet this flop. When V doesn't bet I think he's probably missed and I can take it. Obvious b/f if he x/r.

I raise the turn. Checks flop? Bets turn tiny? Dunno, but we've got a strong hand and there are hands he could call now (AdX) that will fold OTR unless we're beat. Again r/f. I keep it small as I'm looking for calls and won't be surprised by a x/r. $100 to $125 to go.

I have never seen and average player 4bet (or would it be 3bet?) the river on a paired board w/o at least a FH. That play is more advanced than the blocking bet. Regardless of whether he's good or bad, our range has more FHs than his and he'll realize this.

Flatting is fine, but we could be leaving a few bucks behind. I would have played it differently to this point, anyway.

River raise is a little thin but not unreasonable, the real question is why are you not raising turn when villain will have a lot of overpairs

I was being overly cautious I guess since I keep getting roasted here; gearing up to call a large bet on the river, but I felt like with the 1/4 pot river bet I should have more value combos that raise here as I might want to attack it more often with bluffs.

Anyway, I raise to $175 and V shoves for $125 more. He mumbles something about 94, but I call anyway and he shows me 88. That was the really bad part. He basically told me he had the nuts, but I ignored it.

BET FLOP! Paired boars means you can take it down a decent amount, and lots of calls will be weaker flush draws or straight draws.

The only thing thats concerning me about a raise is the stack sizes. He isnt calling a ship with worse, but if you raise less its pot committing you. Maybe make it $60 more OTT and call or fold to a turn or river ship based on reads (its pretty marginal)? If he calls turn raise and checks river im shipping.

Sorry for the result. I know how painful it feels. We all been there. At the same time we have to understand something that it works almost 99.9% in small games. For the most part villains don't lie when they bet to build the pot up at the turn and behind. They don't bluff enough in order for us to call what they represent.

In 1/2, 1/3 and 2/5 games people very very rarely bluff after the flop bet. At the flop they may semibluff but as soon as they start leading on the turn or river with either big bets or bets that looks so obvious that they want a call it's because they have what they represent and if we cannot beat what they tell us they represent we got to fold regardless what hand we may have. Hold'em is relative. It doesn't matter if we have a Set or a straight but if we beat what opponent is holding in that specific situation. If he's holding TP and we have bottom two, well, it is that what counts. If we have a Set and he's representing a straight and he's betting like he wants to build the pot up real fast because he doesn't have much time to download his chips, we got to fold. Our Set doesn't matter. Yes, it's a big hand in theory but at this point in time with all 5 cards on the board doesn't matter how big the set is.

Sorry about that.

There's a lot of 1st level thinking going on in this thread, especially on the river. If Hero raises, what hand that Hero beats can call? A9 is very wishful thinking on a flush board. Even the weakest player out there can figure out that if someone calls down a hand, then raises on the river they have to have at least a flush. If you think his bet sizing reflects the strength of his hand, you are conceding that the villain has noticed it. The best flush he can have is QT that we beat. If you think he'd raise pf with that, then all the Axs hands are in play as well.

Outdonked makes some good points, but as we reached the river, I'd call just to confirm that this is an opposite player. He's going to bet big to bluff and bet small to trap.

Didn't 5 people see the flop? I raise the turn to charge the lone A as he will only 3! with a hand that beats me & I have no chance of improving OTR. I'd make it $90.