First Post in this forum.

I am still wondering about this hand I played on Friday night. 1-2NLH

Hero: 30 yo white guy wearing a ragged hoodie. Likely seen as LAGish compared to rest of table. Playing about 1/3 hands and raising about 40% of those hands in position. Has gotten involved with Villian1 on several pots, stacking him once when I raised him all in OTF with top trips.

Villian 1: ~35 yo white guy playing short initially and then reloading for 200 and then another 100 added on after he lost some. Loose Passive but has been making some solid hands and getting money in with them.

Villian 2: ~35 yo black guy Tight Passive. Sat down later, no real reads and I have not been involved with him.

Table is 7 handed, effective stacks ~230

Hero UTG+1: QQ raises to 10

Villian1 UTG +3: Calls

Villain2 Button: Calls

($30)FLOP: Q J 8

Hero bets 25, V1 Calls, V2 Calls

($105)TURN 9

Hero checks, V1 bets 50, V2 folds

Hero?

probably would need to make at least $50-$75 on average when you fill up / hit quads on the river if you call here to break-even. so maybe you can call and lead for 1/2-2/3 PSB when you hit? it might get called 50+% of the time...

Very easy peel on the turn.
We are about 21% to boat up, needing ~3.9:1 to make a break even call. We are getting just slightly better than 3:1, if we can make $50 more on the river then we are good.

This coupled with the maybe 10% of the time that the river just goes check/check and our hand is good and it is a pretty trivial call imo.

Sounds right.

We're getting around 3:1 on the turn and are close to 4:1 dog to make our hand.

We probably want to make $50 more to make the call break-even.

So let's call the turn, river pot is around $200.

Also agree with leading the river when we make our hand.

In terms of sizing, we have 145 left, so I think it's just a shove.

One question - do we ever bluff shove a club river? I wouldn't.

A pri ori, no. I would need compelling evidence to suggest 1/2 Villian can lay down a made straight for a 2/3 PSB.. Additionally, we have zero clubs in our hands, and have very little evidence he isn't on a club draw himself!

Hero calls 50.

RIVER ($205)
5
Hero checks, Villian1 bets 35.

Hero: "I haven't seen you bluff at all this game and I think I'm gonna lay down top set."
Villian: "But you have seen my lose a lot of money" *genuinly smiles

Hero?

I think the right play is to check/fold. Calling getting 6:1 is close but I think -EV.

The temping play is to check/shove vs this sizing as a bluff.

I assume V's table talk means he wants you to call. I think this is a T almost always. The sizing could suggest he's afraid of a flush. But I guess I'm not going to try to bluff a passive player off a straight, so I guess you could fold or just pay it off really.

Ugh. You're probably not getting good odds on a call, but call anyway. It's too close. Random V will show up with other sets and two pairs occasionally. Just be glad you're not playing against a more balanced villain who will win more in this spot.

Do not try to bluff this guy. It's a losing play.

Especially after the speech, this is a pretty easy fold that I never make

Ha, well said.

I x/c snap call turn, river I'm calling because his sizing is ******ed.

I think it's likely he has a straight here and he bets small because of the flush; less likely he has a flush and bets small to induce; less likely again is that he has worse than us but w/e. I've seen enough tiny bets turn out to be absolutely boneheaded bluffs or 'thin value' bets that just aren't to fold here for $35.

Against more aggressive opponents, i'd be tempted to check-raise the flop. I think you need to cbet against passive opponents. The turn is a call.

I'd normally payoff the river at over 7-to-1. I'm guessing there's a one in eight chance your average villain has something worse than top set, espically someone who might be tilting a bit. The speech probably would have convinced me to fold.

I think you played the hand well. Tough beat with top set.

Curious about why people do stuff like this. What reads are you looking for? If I make a tight fold I generally act like it is obvious that I whiffed or am struggling to make an easy laydown. Something like "I guess 2 pair is no good. Nice flush"

I generally don't want to give off the impression that I make tight folds. I hate doing it, and if I think the table is aware that I can lay down a set here the I hate doing it even more.

Sent from my SM-G900V using 2+2 Forums

I am curious, what T do people think V1 has here? Any 9T? I would discount this because of his call OTF and this

Since he did not raise, I'm guessing no made hand OTF. Similarly, I don't think he has a flush OTR for the same reason.

Are people putting him on AT, KT, and JT only? We block QT, although I suppose that is possible.

I don't see any read that this V is a station. I would have been tempted to x/r all in OTR, before opening my mouth, that is. Again, without opening my mouth, I think 35 is a reasonable price to see what he peeled flop with and why, if I didn't already know. Did he just peel with gutshot? Did he have A? Pair and gutshot?

I do agree that speech means a T.

Autism

I think it's an ego thing, people like to show that they are good at poker by demonstrating that they correctly determined when to fold and they like to show that they had a hand and weren't just playing rubbish.

Personally, I live by the rule that you get to see my cards when you paid to do so and if you didn't pay, well you can just keep guessing.

Hero folds. fwiw, villian tells me later that he made a straight with a T.

As for why I talked to him, I just wanted him to say something. See if he's comfortable etc. I never saw him get out of line and tried to extract some information to confirm my read that I was beat.

scrybe, you make a good point about not letting on that I can lay down big hands. I'll try to avoid that in the future, I guess I just wanted to get some dialog going.

I hope i didn't come across wrong in my post. I genuinely was interested if there are specific responses you are looking for, or if it's a "I'll know it when I hear it" kinda thing.

Also, maybe this opens villain up to telling us about his hand after we fold? Better probably to not let the table know we are laying down a set. You never know who is listening...

Sent from my SM-G900V using 2+2 Forums

No offense taken.

Point taken about being able to lay down top set. Fortunately for me, I will likely never play in that cardroom again, as I was only in the area for business. Like I said, I just wanted him to say something. After his comments, I was over 90% confident that I was beat. 7-1 was tempting enough for me to question if it was even a close decision. Hence the thread. Thanks for the replies.