Flopped straight. Correct calls or not? - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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Flopped straight. Correct calls or not?

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03-17-2018 , 05:32 PM

BroadwaySushy

banned

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 3,237

Limped pot. 1/3

Hero - CO $220.
V1 - BB $105. Regular TAGish type player.
V2 - BU $300. Unknown player type.

Flop 8

V1 shoves all-in.

Hero calls with 5

.

V2 shoves all-in.

Hero calls.

Did I call correctly in both cases? Any input appreciated.

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03-17-2018 , 06:06 PM

QuadJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,237

Yes. It isn't a super profitable spot because one of them usually has a flush draw. The action is such that you are likely facing a combination of sets and draws. There are a few combinations that are bad but occasionally they will be blocking each other and you are well ahead. Mostly you will be a bit over 1/3 to win.

The order of action really forces you in. If V1 had shoved and V2 shoved and then it was your turn it would be debatable but probably still a call. Once V1 shoves and you call there is so much money in the pot you are priced in unless one of them shows you 7c5c.

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03-17-2018 , 06:22 PM

HawkesDave

adept

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 1,173

Can't fold here no matter what. Yes, you can be in a position where you only have 20-25% equity, but that requires a perfect storm of one player having a set or 2p and the other having exactly 7c5c.

Even if one player has a set and the other has Xc5c (anything other than a 7c) you're still 36% equity.

This is a must call spot, but it's one of the few spots in hold'em where you flop the nuts and have a good chance of only being ahead a bit, and a very small chance of being behind by a lot.

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03-17-2018 , 06:24 PM

hitchens97

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,452

OK, guys, help me out, I'm trying to construct any range (not just any reasonable range) to two all-ins regardless of order where calling can't be profitable here? Some sort of weird couple of combo draws that don't block each other or 7c5c only and a set? i.e. is there any two hands face up where it can't be profitable to call? Order doesn't really matter much.

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03-17-2018 , 06:25 PM

HawkesDave

adept

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 1,173

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitchens97

OK, guys, help me out, I'm trying to construct any range to two all-ins regardless of order where calling can't be profitable here? Some sort of weird couple of combo draws that don't block each other or 7c5c only and a set?

You have to include 7c5c for it not to be profitable. The other hand would be a set or 2p, since those are worse for you than a nut flush draw. You block a 7 so not even T9 is bad for you.

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03-17-2018 , 07:17 PM

sixsevenoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 5,411

I don't know about you, but I didn't even realize that there's ever a time to consider folding the nuts.

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03-17-2018 , 07:20 PM

wj94

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 7,951

You should definitely fold the nuts because you can't possibly win.

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03-17-2018 , 07:45 PM

HawkesDave

adept

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 1,173

You can't ever fold the nuts unless they table their hands and one is 75cc exactly and the other is 2p or a set, before you act, and even then you might have enough equity to call depending on how the bets went down. So no, we don't ever consider folding here. You're welcome to feel gross about it, though.

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03-18-2018 , 02:32 AM

BroadwaySushy

banned

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 3,237

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixsevenoff

I don't know about you, but I didn't even realize that there's ever a time to consider folding the nuts.

Except when there's a flush draw on the board with two cards to come, maybe. Still a snap call I guess, but folding is an option.

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03-18-2018 , 02:44 AM

#10

wj94

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 7,951

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy

Except when there's a flush draw on the board with two cards to come, maybe. Still a snap call I guess, but folding is an option.

What

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03-18-2018 , 07:11 AM

#11

BroadwaySushy

banned

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 3,237

What indeed. That's what running bad does to your head at times or to put it another way, variance is a *****.

To illustrate.

Result of the hand: Another

comes on the run-out to complete the flush.

V1 shows J

for the nut flush.

V2 shows 7

for the flush and flopped straight.

Hero gets felted.

Thanks for the feedback guys. At least I feel a bit better about it now.

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03-18-2018 , 10:25 AM

#12

novice123

centurion

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 135

just a cooler man, don't sweat it

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03-18-2018 , 01:24 PM

#13

PokerPrince

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,814

Think of this way - if you win a pot, you played it the right way; if you lose a pot, you played it poorly.

In this case, you had the nuts which is great and all, but because you lost the pot, you actually made a bad decision.

This outlook is the formula for success in poker, even at the nosebleed stakes.

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03-18-2018 , 03:01 PM

#14

russianbear13

banned

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 188

Can someone run this hand through poker stove with reasonable ranges for villains? I think it’s an obvious call though, even though hero’s edge is small.

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03-18-2018 , 03:14 PM

#15

sixsevenoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 5,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy

What indeed. That's what running bad does to your head at times or to put it another way, variance is a *****.

To illustrate.

Result of the hand: Another

comes on the run-out to complete the flush.

V1 shows J

for the nut flush.

V2 shows 7

for the flush and flopped straight.

Hero gets felted.

Thanks for the feedback guys. At least I feel a bit better about it now.

Sorry about that. That's really sick, considering 4

s in the hand. You're right, variance sucks, but it affects all of us. You made the right play.

Last edited by sixsevenoff; 03-18-2018 at 03:25 PM.

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03-19-2018 , 11:27 AM

#16

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,142

There is probably some tipping point where the risk of running into 75cc makes this too risky, but 71bbs ain't close to that tipping point (and if you do reach that tipping point, you're likely playing with too much of your BR on the table).

GsnapcallG

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03-19-2018 , 11:37 AM

#17

shorn7

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,495

So the only time to fold the nuts is if the amount that you could lose would be financially ruining to your life. Clearly that isn't the case so you cannot fold.

And if you are ever playing with a stack that would financially ruin you (like Mike McD), then you have bigger problems than folding the nuts.

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