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Old 02-17-2014, 09:17 PM   #1
trucdouf
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Flopped a set, what to do?

Not your typical 1/2, lots of aggression and 3betting all around. Very juicy, and boozy.

V1 (160) : Late 20s white with earphones. Seen him make a few moves and I've been waiting to get in position against him to GII. Overall pretty good about picking his spots, loves to 3bet OOP I've noticed.

V2 (700) : Late 30s black. Good guy, buying people at the table drinks. Plays too many hands but he is showing up when looked up, showing bluffs when not. Solid lag I peg him. Also bought me a drink about 2 orbits ago.

Hero (260) : Early 20s black hoodie type. Sat down and in back2back first hands got JJ then AA. Got paid by Shortstacks both times. Strong image because of that.

Hand:

V1 makes it 7 from MP
V2 calls on his immediate left
Folds around
SB calls
I call with 55 in the BB

Flop (28) : Q59 dds

SB checks
I donk 15
V1 makes his move to 45
V2 calls
Hero calls? Raises? All-in?

Now I've been waiting to get V1 in this spot with a hand to jam over his raises with 2P+ and here it is. I consider a call out of the question because of the combo draws out there? I know V2 is likely to call no matter what happens.

So now I'm left wondering whether to flat and take my chances against V1 and the combo draw, or raise or ship it.

What do you do?
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:20 PM   #2
wj94
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Re: Flopped a set, what to do?

Shove. Also, a single raise is not a 3bet.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:20 PM   #3
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All in. Calling is out of question and any raise that could force a draw to fold correctly looks at least as strong as shoving
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:21 PM   #4
trucdouf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
Shove. Also, a single raise is not a 3bet.
Thanks and fixed OP.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:48 PM   #5
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Shove
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:58 PM   #6
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Re: Flopped a set, what to do?

Unless one of them has JT we are a huge favorite, and I want to try to get AI against both players if possible, either now or on the turn.

However, if you really think that V2 is calling an AI on the flop then I guess pushing is fine.

On the other hand, if you think that you could get both of them in by raising to $90 (which could cause V1 to say "**** it" and either call or push over you), then I would do this instead, since even in the unlikely event that you're not AI on the flop you certainly would be pushing the remainder in on the turn no matter what card comes.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:14 PM   #7
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Re: Flopped a set, what to do?

I would normally ship here anyway because of the number of draws you could be facing. Between flush draws, straight draws and big pairs that might stick around for one bet, almost anything could put somebody ahead but any specific card is so unlikely you can never fold. If V2 is likely to call with wide, then all the better to shove now.

If you want to get tricky, make it $90 and let V1 shove. That gives V2 the illusion of some FE when he shoves his big stack and gives you the option of shoving yourself if V2 just flats. Even if they both flat, everybody will be committed on turn.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:16 PM   #8
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The point of donk betting small is to get him to raise right? How could you not know what to do now, wasn't this what you were hoping to happen? I'd rip it for sure but it kinda turns your hand face up as this is a play I see guys do all the time. I'd personally check call flop, assuming he bets and try to check shove safe turn cards, if he doesn't bet id lead turn and go from there...it's 1-2 just play abc and don't tilt no need to do all this tricky nonsense it's not how you'll end up making money especially if u don't have a plan for it
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain View Post
On the other hand, if you think that you could get both of them in by raising to $90 (which could cause V1 to say "**** it" and either call or push over you), then I would do this instead, since even in the unlikely event that you're not AI on the flop you certainly would be pushing the remainder in on the turn no matter what card comes.
I think they are both calling a minraise, but I'm just thinking I don't want V1 to shove then be forced to simply call behind V2 rather than reshoving due to V1 stack size. Would that be an issue for you?
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:18 PM   #10
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If the one guy is likely to call no matter what and you have a set id think it'd always be advantageous to get it in
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:19 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by trucdouf View Post
I think they are both calling a minraise, but I'm just thinking I don't want V1 to shove then be forced to simply call behind V2 rather than reshoving due to V1 stack size. Would that be an issue for you?
Absolutely that's an issue, more of a case for ripping it, couldn't u make it 75 tho?
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:23 PM   #12
trucdouf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter1 View Post
The point of donk betting small is to get him to raise right? How could you not know what to do now, wasn't this what you were hoping to happen? I'd rip it for sure but it kinda turns your hand face up as this is a play I see guys do all the time. I'd personally check call flop, assuming he bets and try to check shove safe turn cards, if he doesn't bet id lead turn and go from there...it's 1-2 just play abc and don't tilt no need to do all this tricky nonsense it's not how you'll end up making money especially if u don't have a plan for it
I'm confused. First half of this is shove for sure, but then you say you c/c. Which?

Also I did have a plan.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:26 PM   #13
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In the first part I'm saying if I bet 15 id get it in if raised especially with a call on a drawy board, but I'd check call flop if I didn't bet 15, sorry if that was unclear
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:32 PM   #14
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Re: Flopped a set, what to do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trucdouf View Post
I think they are both calling a minraise, but I'm just thinking I don't want V1 to shove then be forced to simply call behind V2 rather than reshoving due to V1 stack size. Would that be an issue for you?
Unless my math is screwed up, I think that a raise to $90 means that V1's shove is a full raise, allowing us to reraise after a possible V2 flat.

If I'm mistaken and we can't raise to a point that allows V1 to push with a full reraise, then never mind and just push AI at the get-go.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:30 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Walter1 View Post
In the first part I'm saying if I bet 15 id get it in if raised especially with a call on a drawy board, but I'd check call flop if I didn't bet 15, sorry if that was unclear
Ah gotcha. That makes way more sense lol.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:33 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain View Post
Unless my math is screwed up, I think that a raise to $90 means that V1's shove is a full raise, allowing us to reraise after a possible V2 flat.

If I'm mistaken and we can't raise to a point that allows V1 to push with a full reraise, then never mind and just push AI at the get-go.
I think your math is off.
PF 160-7= 153
Flop raise153-45= 108
Say I raise to 90, V1 shove is only 18 more.

Second part of your post makes full sense though.
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:59 AM   #17
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Re: Flopped a set, what to do?

Checking is going to be superior to leading out due to relative position of preflop raiser and other caller most of the time. Shove over flop raise as played.
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:29 AM   #18
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Re: Flopped a set, what to do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trucdouf View Post
I think your math is off.
PF 160-7= 153
Flop raise153-45= 108
Say I raise to 90, V1 shove is only 18 more.
V1 already has $45 in. When you make it $90 it is $45 for him to call and that leaves him with $63 to shove with, just a bit over the $45 you raised.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:00 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ View Post
V1 already has $45 in. When you make it $90 it is $45 for him to call and that leaves him with $63 to shove with, just a bit over the $45 you raised.
True true!

I apologize to earlier poster. My math is off.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:48 AM   #20
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Results:

Hero declares all-in knowing V2 is 100% calling and V1 is 75% calling. V1 goes into the tank wanting to call, bug hesitant. Ends up folding. V2 as expected tries to angle but ends up calling with Q5 for 2P. Board bricks out.

Had I done my math correctly I would have strongly considered a 3bet to 90 which V1 either calls or hopefully shoves over.

I think the shove was the proper play, and the one I had been looking for spots to do.

Thanks for all thoughts.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:22 PM   #21
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Re: Flopped a set, what to do?

Grunch: raise to 95, wait for V1 to shove, wait for V2 to flat, then reshove.

V1 starts the flop with $153.
We bet $15, he raised to $45, if we make it $95, he ships for $153 total (or $58 more than our bet, which was a $50 raise) V2 flats, and we jam, and life is good.

Worse case scenario V1 flats, V2 flats, and we have a $300 pot and we just jam our last $160 into the pot on 95% of turn cards.
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