$1/$2 NLHE live game...

I am looking for some feedback on a pot that I played this evening. These are two very different types of action players and I am debating the best lines for playing this scenario with these types of players and this action.

Villain #1 - a $2/$5 semi-regular who is stepping down in stakes for the night, capable of playing great, extreme LAG on this evening and appearing a bit fishy, extremely high VPIP, raising often, straddling more than 50% of hands and raising probably 90% of his straddles. However, underneath all of his craziness and wildness at the $1/$2 tonight, I know he is a solid player at $2/$5. With this in mind, I think you can expect him to do crazy things in small pots tonight, but likely to have it when the bets are getting bigger. However, I saw him call off $100 preflop with A7 offsuit in a spot where it was obviously no good, also show some other signs of steaming and donkish potential tonight. He had gone from $700 down to $1500ish and is now back around $430 and his stack is volatile.

Villain #2 - extreme fish, will call any bet with any cards on early streets, has been frequently and consistently losing $1k to $2k+ per night in $1/$2 games here for last 2 months. He does not care about the money much and will gamble for big pots with laughable cards. Games are built around him. WILL NOT FOLD ANY DRAW ON TURN FOR ANY BET... would be a useful read to relay here.

Me - I had a very tight image tonight, especially with preflop selection at this point. Generally a TAG player. Both players know me, #1 doesn't know much about me but has seen me make some good showings at $2/$5 and sees me around this room a lot. I expect that he has probably made me as a winning player and not a joker.

All 3 of us have just over $400 stacks.

I have 88

Villain #1 raises to $12 from UTG+1, I call, Villain #2 calls from button behind me. 3 players to flop. $39 pot.

Flop 985

Villain #1 bets $20, I call, and Villain #2 calls. $99 in the pot now.

Turn 9853

Villain #1 bets $37.
I raise to $100.
Villain #2 calls $100.
Villain #1 raises all in for $400ish.

We are looking at calling $300 to win a pot of $800, plus whatever villain #2 might put in behind me.

What would you do here?

A showdown did occur, I wont say if I was involved or not, and I will post results here after a bit.

Some more thoughts...

When V#1 moves in here, I am considering 9-9, 5-5, 3-3, 6-7, and slight possibilities of AA, combo draws and other strange hands since he had been getting way out of line. The fact that Villain #2 can be/ and is likely drawing, made me think that V#1 might be more prone to ship it in over the top if he had top two pair, bottom set etc. I expect he is just calling with his combo draws etc so we believe he likely has a premium hand or is just going crazy. However, we don't think he is likely to go crazy because this is no longer a small joke pot. He is solid underneath... I have made the mistake before of thinking that this type of player is playing crazy still when they make that big $400 bet. A huge part of their angle is to play crazy, but in the big pot, make sure they have it and hope they have earned the action to get paid off. Nonetheless, a big question here was "How crazy is this guy".

I was expecting #1 to go away and I would be going for value against #2, who is the big fish. #2 is calling almost everything on turn IMHO. Villain #1 is good enough that I expect that he will be done with his hand here most of the time. My image was tight enough that I thought it would cause me problems in getting more value from a player like him.

Alternate lines and comments...

- Raising flop, taking betting lead and betting all safe runouts seems fine.
- Slow play on flop but making turn $137 seems ok. $100 was not a great number.
- Smooth calling turn... I don't really like but did consider and am considering for future. V#2 is just too fishy and prone to call me down for me to like this line. However, there are reasons I can like this idea on occasion. This includes keeping in river bluffs from #1 if he is drawing and misses, disguising my hand in case we are set-over-set, controlling pot size in case he flopped a straight.

All feedback welcome, thanks

I would have raised the flop. As played take all your chips and push them towards the center and protect your cards.

Slam dunk flop raise under any circumstances. Even more so against described Vs.

As played, GII OTT. You're really only in bad shape against 99, and it's way too MUBSY to worry about running middle set into top set with these stacks. I wouldn't expect V2 to flat the $100 then fold very often, and with his money in there you'd be getting about thre right price even if you're against a straight.

Raising flop is definitely the play, even more so with V2 behind. I am pumping it big here, like $80. AP on the turn raising is good, again I raise bigger because of V2’s tendencies and double FD on board. When he jams, pull out your coolest pair of sunglasses, signal the waitress, buy yourself the nicest cocktail they have, and slide those chippies into the middle.

Ari & Mr Spy - you guys are giving horrible advice. In this spot it’s absolutely critical that you also high-five the dealer. Leaving that out is criminal. It lets your V’s know that the dealer is on your side and that, even if some how you’re being here, that the dealer is going to bail you out on the river. You guys normally give good advice but, come on, high-five the dealer is as ABC as it gets....

OP - i’m In the call camp.

Raise flop to $70-95, this is probably your biggest mistake.

Your turn raise size is way too small as well, given V2s interest and lack of a fold button.

Once you are raised all in, take a few seconds to make your opponents think you are pondering a call, but all you’re really thinking about is Vegas and the ****ing Mirage. Then call.

Flopping middle set multi way on a sopping wet board vs 2 action player is the stuff dreams are made of. You are handing them their money back by not raising big otf.

Ap gii and don't forget to high five the dealer ldo

I think preflop is interesting. Against described V we should be way ahead of his PFR range, and if we 3-bet to isolate him we can have him playing OOP in a bloated pot where we have a read that he'll play simple ABC poker under those circumstances.

$40 to go pre-flop.

As played, every time it's your turn shovel money in the pot. If you're gonna play against these kind of players you can't be trying to outsmart yourself with weird pot-control lines or hero folds with 3rd nuts.

Raise the flop. Bigger on turn. As played, snap (slowly so as not to tip them off) all in.

Thanks. I called. He Flopped a straight and I failed to improve.

It’s because you forgot to high-five the dealer.

:grunch:

If you're not raising this hand on this board against these Vs then what flops DO you raise? Flop is likely your best shot to get value for this hand against two loose Vs. My question was serious though. What hands WOULD you raise here if not a set? Smooth calling flop and raising turn on a safe card with a monster is a textbook LLSNL line from passive fish and I would suggest you avoid it.

AP cram it in. If I waited more than 2 seconds to toss in a chip it would only be for effect to elicit a call from V2.