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Flopped set, turned boat Flopped set, turned boat

11-20-2017 , 03:25 AM
Just looking for opinions on my line in this hand. I think I got greedy by taking a line that would afford me an opportunity to get stacks in and it cost me value. 1/2nl.

This is your run of the mill 1/2 Sunday afternoon game. Both Vs in this hand are pretty straight forward regs, but they're also not usually intimidated by raises/c-raises etc. V1 is a middle aged ME male, V2 is a older Asian gentleman (without the crazy Asian image). Just not too much to be mentioned as far as reads, nobody is on tilt or getting too far out of line. V1 tends to hold onto TP hands, and V2 can be somewhat reluctant to fold draws.

V1: ~260
V2" ~300
Hero: Covers (~550)

Hero is dealt 66 in the BB. Limps all the way around and hero checks. 6 ways to the flop

Pot: $12
Flop: KJ6

I thought about c/r flop right off the bat to try to start building a pot as this board should hit a lot of Vs ranges. Instead I just lead for $12 and got 2 callers.

Pot: $48
Turn: J

So this is where I think I may have gotten too greedy. With this being a limped pot, the SPR is so high that I just didn't see a way to even have the opportunity to get stacks in by taking a b/b/b line. I also think that Jx could definitely be in both Vs ranges, and a large part of both Vs ranges here could withstand a c/r. So I opt to check turn instead of betting.

V1 bets $25, V2 quickly calls. I deliberate for a few seconds but wasn't tanking, then c/r to $80. V1 does go into the tank, cutting out calling chips while he's doing so. Finally he kind of shakes his head in aggravation, puts his calling chips back on top of his stack and folds. V2 then seems even more aggravated at the situation, as he mumbles to himself while gesturing towards V1 as to say he wanted V1 to call so he could call too. He then disgustingly folds as well.

So it seems like both Vs had TP/FD/SD types of hands and I could have taken a b/b/b line where I could have sized up OTR if the the draws came in. I really thought this was a board where Vs may be able to withstand a turn c/r, and in my mind I was looking to take a line that would give me a chance to mostly get stacks in by the river. Should I have just taken the standard b/b/b line where I most likely get 1/2-2/3PSB river bet called in at least one spot, or was it okay to take a c/r turn line in order to get SPRs low enough by the river that I have a chance to get max value with my hand?

Last edited by branch0095; 11-20-2017 at 03:30 AM.
Flopped set, turned boat Quote
11-20-2017 , 03:43 AM
Sometimes making the most doesn't involve stacking.. but anyways... Guy's who've played a while (regs) seem to have an intuitive sense of beluga w/out necessarily having read about it, &/or it's related to your image in that particular session. If you've been meek, have shown down a lot of really strong hands, never raised draws, etc... your line will look REALLY strong... though if anyone actually had a jack, you would have been called. I think you should consider their whole ranges, and not just the particular trips you were trying to target. There's a heart FD and broadway/K9 straight draws to think about as well. Combo-wise, there are many more draws & Kx in these guy's hands than Jx. Also, we're first to act, so we might get Jx raising us! I'd continue to bet large, maybe not PSB like flop, but ~2/3 to rep a K that's trying to deny draws equity.
Flopped set, turned boat Quote
11-20-2017 , 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumSurfer
Sometimes making the most doesn't involve stacking.. but anyways... Guy's who've played a while (regs) seem to have an intuitive sense of beluga w/out necessarily having read about it, &/or it's related to your image in that particular session. If you've been meek, have shown down a lot of really strong hands, never raised draws, etc... your line will look REALLY strong... though if anyone actually had a jack, you would have been called. I think you should consider their whole ranges, and not just the particular trips you were trying to target. There's a heart FD and broadway/K9 straight draws to think about as well. Combo-wise, there are many more draws & Kx in these guy's hands than Jx. Also, we're first to act, so we might get Jx raising us! I'd continue to bet large, maybe not PSB like flop, but ~2/3 to rep a K that's trying to deny draws equity.
Thanks. Completely agree with your thought on their ranges, and maybe I worded my post incorrectly. I wasn't specifically targeting Jx or putting either V on that exact holding, I was just stating that I thought the J OTT was a good card as I felt Jx could definitely be in both of their ranges. My generic range on both Vs was Kx/Jx/FDs/SDs. I convinced myself to take the c/r line with somewhat smallish sizing because I felt the entirely of that range could theoretically continue. Obviously Jx is never folding, but on such a draw heavy board I thought some Kx hands could continue, and in a 3way pot with my sizing I felt like a lot of draws in their ranges could continue getting a pretty good price.

I sometimes have a tilty/spewy image against regs when I'm having a bad session, but my image was pretty squeaky clean during this session. I had been card dead and mostly folding for the previous hour, but I had squeezed a $13 open with two field callers just the previous hand and took it down uncontested. Of course with a clean image I'm sure I was given credit for a big hand there as well.

Last edited by branch0095; 11-20-2017 at 04:09 AM.
Flopped set, turned boat Quote
11-20-2017 , 05:38 AM
I like the pot sized flop bet, that's great. I would just call there you're way ahead when the board pairs. They've shown some interest--bet, call--so just lead river for a good sized bet and you'd have a much better outcome.
Flopped set, turned boat Quote
11-20-2017 , 05:53 AM
What other hands are you leading flop then c/r turn on a paired board without a boat or AJ? Makes it a lot easier for them to fold....just bet flop/turn/river yourself.
Flopped set, turned boat Quote
11-20-2017 , 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
What other hands are you leading flop then c/r turn on a paired board without a boat or AJ? Makes it a lot easier for them to fold....just bet flop/turn/river yourself.
Basically this. Just bet halfpot and it's the best of all worlds. Draws can stay in, jacks might raise you, kings will call when they would have checked behind, etc. A x/r line is a lot more specific about exactly what you want to happen, it has a lot less ways to go well. You need them to both bet and call the raise and even then it might not go well (for example, making someone fold who would have rivered a flush and stacked off).
Flopped set, turned boat Quote
11-20-2017 , 10:26 AM
Its called no limit for a reason
Flopped set, turned boat Quote
11-20-2017 , 01:09 PM
I prefer leading turn small (to give str8/flush draws odds to continue) or check/calling turn and then leading the river especially if FD comes in. The turn CR is just so strong on this board texture that even the fishiest of players will likely fold without a Jack in their hand. While I understand the desire to get stacks in, you need to focus on maximizing against their likely entire range and save any raises you have for the river.
Flopped set, turned boat Quote
11-21-2017 , 08:08 AM
Thanks guys, for the replies. Seems like b/b/b is the favoured line here, and it's normally my default line in a situation like this where the pot starts out small due to being a limped pot. Sometimes I just like to try different lines, and I thought turn c/r was the only way to build a pot big enough to play for stacks OTR. I completely understand that getting max value doesn't always mean playing for stacks, again I was just trying something different.

Someone asked about what non-boat hands I would take this line with, and that's a really good question that I hadn't given much thought to. I would sometimes play AJ like this, but not very often. I'm really not taking this line very often in general though. I couldn't see myself ever playing Kx this way. OOP I would sometimes play a combo draw this way (AQhh/A10hh/Q10hh), if I've checked turn and feel like the other players aren't very strong and I could win the pot with a semi-bluff. Vs won't always know this, but I'd pretty much never have AQhh here as I wouldn't check my option with it pre except for a few specific situations. I could have A10/Q10 hh though. So my range with this line would consist of 66/AJ/A10hh/Q10hh and the occasional bluff if I'm feeling a bit spewy at the time.
Flopped set, turned boat Quote
11-21-2017 , 11:15 AM
In my games and in this forum this topic comes up a lot. I am absolutely convinced that to most V's a b/b/b line looks weaker than c/r anywhere along the way. Many V's get FPS with made hands and expect you to do the same (as you did). Sometimes leading is trickier than c/r.
Flopped set, turned boat Quote

      
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