I'm playing 2/3 with a roughly $350 stack when this hand occurs. I've been at the table long enough to develop a tight and aggressive image and have only shown down winning hands.

Villain 1 (SB) has about $250 and is tight passive.
Villain 2 (MP) covers me and is unknown.
Villain 3 (button) has about $250 and is a very weak calling station.

I'm dealt TT UTG and raise to $12, which is standard for my table. I expect a couple calls, but instead THE ENTIRE TABLE calls and sees the flop. I pray to flop a set; otherwise, I plan to check fold if there are overcards.

Pot after rake is $90. The flop comes KQT, so I got my wish. But I wish I'd been more specific, because this is one ugly board.

Villain 1 donks from the small blind for $50. The big blind folds.

Hero?

Question for hero.

What holding(s) would make a " tight passive " donk 20% of his stack from the SB with this very wet board ? Someone at your table has been clobbered with this flop and if they are holding AJ, you're dead in the water already.

Anything more than an "expected couple" of calls can pretty quicky turn TT in EP to a setmining hand if we don't narrow the field, imo. $12 seems pretty small but I guess you know your table (or do you?).

It seems a little unlikely anyone has KK/QQ (wouldn't they 3bet preflop with all this dead money?). We are losing to a flush/straight (but will suck out on them 1/3rd of the time). We beat a lotta hands that will commit stacks (two pair, pair + draw, just a draw, etc.). Pot is already $140. Looks like a lotta stacks are only ~$240 (i.e. any raise is committing). So I shove.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I would call and hope other players behind me either call or shove so we get better pot odds to hit our boat.

If you call and everyone else folds, then you can fold on the turn when V1 shoves 200 into a pot of 200 since you will not be getting the right odds to call.

Don't shove on the flop since your hand has 0 fold equity against V1's donk bet who we have a read as being tight passive. If we shove and everyone else folds around to him then he is calling you with a better hand (likely the nut flush) and you gave yourself bad odds to draw to a boat.

Call.

Hopefully everyone else will call behind us.

Our hand may or may not be ahead right now. A raise gives the hands we are ahead of the chance to fold, we don't want that.

The turn will tell us more!!

I would shove, unless we boat up on the turn its not going to play all that well

I jam. For 100bb I'm not folding my set here and half the deck either makes us hate life or freezes the action OTT.

You know you have MUBS when you're worried villain flopped a royal flush.

Lmao

need a read on the villian. but in a bubble I would call at least one street.

check out an see how many players look like they have a spade draw. if only one player is interested in this hand, the chances are very good that everyone else does not have spades and that he does.

and then if V fires a second barrel and the board does not pair, muck it

This was pretty much exactly my reasoning during the hand, and I did call V1's $50 flop bet. V2 and V3 also called, so the pot grew to $290.

The turn is the 7. V1 bets $100.

Hero?

OP, wtf man? What happened to the results of THIS:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...ot-jj-1582583/

?

Way to leave us all hanging.

Hero fights his urge to raise or call, and finds the discipline to fold.

Tight passive villain showing immense strength OTT has you beat. You don't have proper odds to fill up.

I usually find your posts well thought out but in this case while we dont likely fear KK/QQ, what about any two pair hands on this flop that are blockers to our FH as well as beat our draw. I'm not sure it changes our action (shove), but it certainly complicates things. This hand is vastly different if we have KK or if the flop was QT8s.

fold flop

How many of your 839 posts are useful? The last 20 of your 2-6 word posts Ive read were a waste of bandwidth. Not too mention folding is horrible.

For me this whole hand comes down to pot size.

This pot is huge relative to stacks and we has a set. There are a bunch of hands we beat that a tight passive could donk small here thinking they are best and protecting (AK, KJ, KQ, KT, QT, etc.) plus a bunch of hands he might donk due to good equity (such as As + pair, Js + pair, etc.). Yes, we could be behind, but on the flop we have 2 more streets to suckout in these cases (which we'll do 1/3rd of the time). I think we just have to go with it at this point. We just can't be calling down when things could get uglier and uglier and meanwhile leave ourselves with < PSB on the river with a set.

If this was a limped pot with our stack behind, then I would much rather just flat / evaluate the flop and see what happens on later streets as the reward (the small pot) just ain't worth the risk (our big stack behind).

GimoG

Since discussion has petered out, I'll continue with the hand. When V1 bets $100 on the turn, creating a pot of $390, I'm getting 3.9 to 1 on a call. While I'm sure he has a flush, I'm almost getting the expressed odds I need to chase quads or a boat, and since I know V3 will come along as well, there are at least some implied odds on top of that.

So, hero calls $100.

V2 then shoves for $300 effective, screwing up my plan.

V3 calls all in for his last $200, as expected.

V1, the tight passive flop donker and turn bettor, folds instead of putting his last hundred in the pot. I know, it boggled me as well.

Hero has a little less than $200 in front of him, and the pot is now $990. I'm now sure V2 has the flush, but I'm getting around 5 to 1 on a call, so I call all in as well.

The river is the 4, and my heart sinks. But wait! V2 shows KQ for 2 pair. V3 flips over the A and sadly says "My draws never got there." Hero drags a $1200 pot and is happy, but was curious who on these forums would have jammed the flop or found a fold on the turn.

^I mistakenly folded the turn. It just looked too strong.

NH.

I'm borrowing an O8 concept here but I think I would consider folding this flop because I think a lot of our board pairing outs are taken or dirty outs. The big cards are out in a higher percentage if it's 8 handed likely so I don't think we're getting our theoretical odds to hit our boat. Our stack is between deep and standard so it's a close call. 100 bb stack i'm shoving 350bb stack I'm folding if that makes any sense.

Finally grunching. Raise gii happy merry early christmas. I read other replys now. I suck at poker btw

Tight passive suggests he wouldn't donk into this many people with just a draw, maybe that read is slightly off.

I'm never folding flop btw, whoever said that.

Brah we are all learning here, everyone has the right to have an input as long as they are not trolling. He's not trolling

When the action says one thing, odds should let themselves out the door

I don't assume villains are t/p just because OPs do

I realize that we are all learning. That includes me. My point was that his posts are always "fold flop" or "call" or "raise more". 2 word posts with no explanation are a waste of time.

I fold flop here actually.. board is already awful and theres many bad turns and rivers - even board pairing isnt that good because someone very easily has KQ. Tight passive player donking a board like this screams low flush.. His play is really strange, looks like super MUBS who folded a small flush or a straight to all the action.

I think its miraculous that you were good here.

With five players behind, the flop is an easy call. As soon as the turn blanks and there are still three other players, one having just led out, it's an easy fold. You have a much better idea of what's going on at that point, and you can pretty much guarantee your board pairing outs are tainted.

The two people after you are getting about 4:1 to call, so any naked jacks or spades are getting the right price. Meanwhile, you are live to probably only ~8 improvement outs (T777QQKK). You likely have the best hand now, but 19 cards can hit the river that pretty much guarantee you lose. Another 6 boat you but bigger boat any KQs. It's also possible that QQ is already out there reeling you in.