You have some awfully unrealistic, gargantuan expectations about getting three streets of value here. Checking the turn and only having 51BBs in the pot after he checks behind is still just about the best scenario you could have here as long as you got anything out of V on the river. Unless he has AA I can't fathom what else you expected to happen here.

Agree. I want to check the river, but I'm also afraid he will only bet AK (and probably AQ) and check his other aces behind, while he may call a bet with AJ and AT as well. Furthermore, I fully expect him to bet/fold (if he bets at all), in which case a check/raise would defeat its purpose, as villain can set his own price for the river and is never calling a c/r anyway. I would hate to see him bet/fold 100 when I can get him to call 170. He raised in EP and bet the flop into four opponents, so I'm thinking he must have a good ace.

However, if he's good, he should still fold everything except AK when we bet, I guess, so checking is probably still best. I depends on the opponent, I know lots of people against whom I would definitely bet the river, because they're too MUBsy to bet themselves and bad enough to call AJ.

In a live situation, I think I'm checking the turn and then I'll, A) bet the river if he checked the turn, or B) check the river if he bet the turn.

If he checks behind on the turn, checking the river might be the best way to get value if he's willing to B/F for thin value with AK/AQ, but I just can't see myself checking twice here because I'd probably puke all over the table if my quads get checked through again.

If we donk something like 50 or 60 on the turn, do you guys really expect any Ax to fold? Also, the times he was cbetting air and picked up a BDFD he will definitely call a tiny turn bet drawing to a dead flush.

It's not really about whether he's going to call the turn donk bet or not, but whether he's MORE LIKELY to call a river donk bet.

Against a remotely competent player, you have practically no chance of getting him to call the turn donk bet AND a river bet unless 1 of the 2 remaining aces land, but even then you're getting his stack even if you had checked the turn. On the flipside, if you bet the turn and he has a weak ace and folds, you get nothing. On the contrary, that same weak ace, and any other ace, may be more likely to call a river bet. You also have the chance that checking the turn gets V to bet the turn again, too, although that's unlikely from anything but AK/AQ, and even then it may not be likely.

If you were V and you had an A and your kicker was under a T or J would you call this donk turn bet? He bet the flop and you called: can he really think you donk bet on the diamond? That makes no sense that you'd float the flop on a paired board for a backdoor flush draw, especially considering the A of diamonds is what hit the flop.

Your goal here, barring a miraculous 2nd A hit the river, is to maximize ONE street of value besides the one he bet for you on the flop already. It's way too ambitious to hope for two with quads on that flop. How do you get that one? That's what you should be focusing on.

I like c/c flop, lead turn 115, lead river 315, hope to win the moneys... If villain is folding too much, then you occasionally can take this same line as a bluff (I might take the same line with something like 99 or A9 -- at least I have a little bit of equity vs a big A).

If you can't ever get 3 streets of value with the nuts, then you obviously need to be bluffing more.

Pretty stupid hand to post (quads in general) cause there's not much you can do wrong and depends on opponent/luck whether you get max value. I'm ok with almost any option on all streets.

This isn't the type of hand that has a magic formula to get 3 streets of value out of regardless of what V thinks of your ability to bluff. Your only bluffs here are complete airballs unless you think you can convince a terrible opponent that you floated the flop with a BDFD that doesn't include A

Big lesson here is that if turn checks through, river is still a check. Don't be afraid of check backs. Instead think about extracting value.

On this texture, that is done with a river check.

how every crusher comes up with a different line here is pretty mind blowing, sure we lack information and to be fair - i could come up with 4 different optimal lines in 4 different rooms close to where i play(ed).

really goes to show you rare spots like this extracting value with the stone cold nuts are close to meaningless to a winrate, it's the little things that happen often that matters

chk - chk/raise allows villain to play perfectly because only 0.01% of us have the balls to chk/r this river with AX as a bluff, i'll go out on a whim and say if you chk/r 100% of your range here OTR you'd be profitable, so extracting value obviously is going to be really hard with this line

that's why i love turn donk bets my friends

I agree 100%.

As played, I'm going to bet close to pot on the river. Perhaps $235 into $255. Make it look polarised, like a busted FD, and hopefully he calls it off with Ax.

I'm not a fan of x/raising the river for 2 reasons:
1) I think he checks back some Ax hands a decent amount, like AJ, which he would be happy to call a bet with, and:
2) I doubt he bet/calls the river with any Ax hand once we x/raise, unless he's a massive station.

The problem is there are zero draws on the flop and I can really never have a float here when I c/c flop with people to act behind me. So yes, a pot size bet is polarized, but as unbalanced as possibly can be because that polarized range has no bluffs.

Agree with this. He's auto checking back river with weak and med strength Ax. Prob only betting AQ/AK and not calling a c/r.

If V is folding all hands worse than trips, then why wouldn't we float all of our hands and donk turn here?

Then he's alowing the majority of our range (medium Ax) to get to showdown cheaply which is a good thing.

If he's not calling a x/r then we can add some of our weaker Ax into a river x/r range as a merge.

This needs to be played from a range perspective. Most of your range check check checks.

Finally, that's 3 checks. Its gonna be mighty tempting for him to look you up light if you check 3 times.