I have been playing for about 3 hours at this table. I have been opening a fair number of pots (usually to 15) and have been caught bluffing and calling on a few occasions with second pair (and being good).
I am planning to leave after this hand, so I am wearing my jacket as I will in BB the very next hand.
I have two red 66 at this 7 handed table. I want to get rid of my $1 chips, so I open UTG to 7. I usually won't open for that size. I usually limp or raise to 15 with 55-77 and the question is not about the pre-flop. UTG+1 calls.
Cutoff (tight-ish asian player raises to 30), Button who has played maybe 3-4 hands in the past two hours (showed a set, and a flush) calls and I call. UTG+1 folds.
I started the hand with 450 and both opponents cover me.
Flop comes 622. I take around 15 seconds and lead for $40. Cutoff folds and button raises to 110.
What do you think of the lead? What is the best option now?

The flop lead is reasonable. It's psychological games really, so depends how you think the players will react.

Presumably button has like TT-QQ. Nothing else makes sense. I suppose he could have 22 but no point speculating about that. If he never folds to a jam, then jam is very clear because we don't want to see like an ace turn and have him slow down. I guess I'd want some table feel of how comfortable he is, but if we've been caught bluffing in some other hands then I guess I'm jamming. Not really sure though, think it's a close spot.

Welcome to 2+2. Paragraph breaks and better format will make your hand posts oh so much easier to read.

While you are giving away white chips, want to give them to me? j/k.

Definitely a fold pre. AINEC. You will be OOP with weak holding and almost certainly aren't getting paid off often enough to make this a +EV call.

AP'ed: Good job. On your last hand on the way out you flopped a monster. Villains play screams mid to larger PP 99-QQ. Though you don't mention suits on the flop, so hard to tell about other draws. However, unless it was AQss+ I think you can probably discount all the 2's from opponents range.

I would call flop raise. And look to x/r AI on the turn against ATC. Easy game. Pot will be over $300 on the turn with only a PSB left behind, so no need to get crazy on this flop. You have plenty of time to get it in on the turn, and evaluate a value range if it checks through.

leading flop is best way to get value from overpairs which is in pfr range and trips which are in the other callers range.

think for a long time like you're deciding if your 99 is good then just call. if you raise he might get it in with JJ+ but he might only get it in with KK/AA and you definitely kill your action if he's got AK type hands and is trying to push you off a smaller pocket pair.



I would think for a minute then call flop then lead all turn cards (after tanking 30 seconds) for $60. this gives him 1 more chance to bluff if that's what he is doing and he's going to continue to read this as weak and shove overpairs. the only card that might kill your action is a 6, or an ace if he has KK, and they might not kill your action anyway.

just my 2c.

Leading then tanking then leading turn is a real bad line to get value from weakish over pairs and is a very strong line that's never a bluff. Mainly 77-JJ is what we're targeting assuming QQ+ raises. I don't like 3 betting flop vs 98% of live population so I default to call here. Yea there are some action killers like A or K but it shouldn't be hard at all to get 1 more street minimum. Getting full stacks is a bonus and usually if you don't then there are alot of results oriented reasons why.

we are not targeting weakish overpairs we are targeting TT+ as well as inducing bluffs from AQ+.

it's not supposed to look like a bluff, bluffs don't pay off the villain and we don't want him to think we are bluffing... it's supposed to look like a blocker bet with a medium strength hand.

checking turn has merits but check raising turn is the worst possible play and is truly never a bluff.

The flop was rainbow.
I am not putting him on AQ/AK. I think he mostly has 99-QQ here.
Do I ever check this flop (to check raise)?
If I know he exactly has QQ should I call or raise if he raised to 110 on the flop?

The button was very comfortable. He always reloads to the max (400) when he was getting to 350 or lower. He is a white male around 45-50. He did not limp pre-flop at all and generally very tight.

And I was generally comfortable in all previous decisions and this hand. Although I was caught bluffing a few times. It was usually opening wide and c-betting and then check folding the turn/river.

The problem is they don't know what is my range for leading on the flop with. For the entire three hours, I did not lead to the pre-flop raiser (unless he/she checked back the flop). I might do it with gut-shots/ open ended from time to time, but I am usually checking it to the pre-flop raiser type of player.

I swear I already posted in this thread.

You should be check/calling this flop, as your range is mostly made up of bluffcatchers on a brick flop after you called a 3-bet pre-flop. Generally when the majority of your range is at best a bluff-catcher you can expect opponents to put a lot of pressure on you and you want to slow-play your few nut hands.

If your opponents are bad enough that they won't bluff on this flop or that they'll check back high pairs then go ahead and lead. Against players that don't suck you should check.

An example of a much better spot to lead would be JJ with the same pre-flop action and a JsTs9h flop.

this is 1/3 and you lose value by balancing your range. lead here all day. if you check call you can't raise without a nutted hand. if you lead you're way more likely to be overlaying 77 or A6s

It's not about balancing for the sake of balancing, it's about maximizing the value of our hand based on how our opponents perceive our range.

Leading gets value from overpairs, but overpairs are betting anyway. Checking allows us to get value from bluffs that will fold to a bet, which is what actually happened as the 3-bettor folded to our lead.

we want to build the pot against other strong hands, not check call trying to induce bluffs which is going to lose you value against other strong hands. if you check this flop you can never raise on any street without scaring every1 off. lead now and try to get max value versus overpairs and trips. u got reraised, good, tank call and lead on all turns. you can't check the turn and let someone pot control and you can't re raise flop because you're turning your hand face up

+1. I strongly agree with browni on this one.

How are we losing value against other strong hands when those other strong hands are going to continue betting?

a) because we don't give them the chance to re raise

b) because they're going to bet less than we would bet,

c) because they're not going to bet 3 streets

d) because after we check call we can't be bluffing on any later street, so we're relying on them to shove for us which is too optimistic

fold pre
obvious check call otf
as played obvious call and check turn

when Johnny Chan tells the story of how he became a pro he says "I went to Vegas I flopped a set I bet flop turn and river and they called all 3 streets". but just keep check calling lol

glad to see we're continuing to play like players who were relevant 20+ years ago

the irony is that your line went out of date in 2004 and johnnys line is what is actually correct. we have the probable nuts - common sense tells us that we want to put more money in the pot, so checking is wrong. same reason I would lead if I flopped the nut flush for instance.

the difference is I've given my reasoning in detail above and all u did was snidely say "you should obviously check on both streets" without any explanation.

no we want money to go in the best way is to lead not check and hope someone bets for us.

also the only way I'd ever fold a pocket pair from EP is if stacks were very short and players
were very aggressive. usually players are loose passive and I don't remember the last time I was at a table where I was open folding pocket pairs.

I see both sides here. The main advantage of leading is that it's harder for them to get away from the hand. If you x/r flop or if it goes like x/c flop, x/x turn, lead river, some players will find a fold. If you lead and keep betting, they never will. Whether that matters on this hand is an open question. (Re post #15, we don't need them to bet three streets, there's only a PSB left after the flop action).

The main disadvantage to leading is that it doesn't fit well into a coherent strategy (because your check call range becomes very weak) and you might lose value by preventing them from bluffing with AK or similar. I'm not sure either of those things are concerns in this hand though.

Basically leading vs checking only matters in rare, questionably relevant circumstances, which is why there's a religious war going on about it ITT.

lol at citing Johnny Chan as a poker authority, though.

Was this @ 45th by Any chance?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would just call here and make a 3/4s size bet on turn. I think after the flop call the fellow will know something's up. Best not to be tricky because after that he "won't hang himself."

Leading this type of flop also gives them a chance to spazz with their entire range as well which, given we aren't that deep, we want to do to try to get stax in by the river. Checking does not allow this and only loses value from hands that they probably check behind with anyway.

Doing something "in order to get rid of my $1 chips" is not a good poker strategy.

I'd mostly open fold 66 UTG at most tables I play at, otherwise I'd limp. I actually think raising them is the worst option, especially to a juicer amount which is inviting a 3bet. Facing the 3bet, the good news is that we're getting 21+ IO odds and are most likely up against a strong range (which is good for setmining); the bad news is that we'll be OOP, although since the SPR will be a very small (< 5) that probably won't matter as much. So long as the opener is likely strong, it's probably a profitable call.

I'm fine with the donk although I would have made it smaller (could possibly get played back at by big Ax), although with this small of SPR I'd prefer a check to enable AK to improve the times they don't cbet as we can easily still play for stacks even if flop checks thru.

As played, I'd probably just flat. Pot will be $310 on the turn with just $310 left, we could donk like $90 and go from there. Although we do risk scare cards (like Aces) coming to perhaps enable hero folds.

ETA: Not that I totally despise leading, but leading would be much more important in a higher SPR pot where we'll need 3 big bets to get in stacks. Here the SPR is a small 4.5, so having a bet go in on the flop isn't a necessity in order to play for stacks.

GcluelessNLnoobG