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Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR

02-02-2014 , 06:30 AM
Should I have over bet turn or over-bet flop

Most stacks 600+ and 1 effective stack 400:

Hero: 56d

Nit 1 bet $15 UTG 1, 4 callers ( 2 tags, 1 lag, 1 fish) I call $10 in BB

Flop K93d

I flopped flush: I donk out $55 2 callers (nitty/taggy + Fish)

Turn: Qh: I bet $120 2 callers

Should I have shoved turn, or should I have folded PF

Will post river after I get feed back.

I am out of position, I get the feel that one or both players have a high D.
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-02-2014 , 08:45 AM
I don't mind the call pre, even though it is typically hard to get paid with hands OOP. However if I'm calling 56s pre in this spot it will be largely for the value of making a nut straight, especially considering how deep we are. More detailed villian descriptions will be needed to determine as to whether or not we would be willing to go to the felt with a flush.

I definitely like a lead in this spot, as any competent player will realise a c/r in this spot has to be a flush from someone with a decent image. Given that there is $90 in the pot, and the majority of the hands which give you action are nutty, or are drawing to nutty hands, I'm bombing for $95, making sure I stay below the psychological barrier of $100. There is also a good chance that any live regs in the hand will read it is a TP-ish type hand which doesn't want to see a 4th diamond. It also makes it a very easy fold if we're raised by any player (except the lag maybe) on the flop. I'm expecting this bet to be called by Kx, any gutter+FD, Ad, 2p, sets from the fish, and by KxQd, AdKx, 2P and sets from the tag, with AA also being in his range if he is the PFR.

On the turn, as played there is $255 in the pot, whilst betting $120 sets up a nice river shove, there are so many rivers which we aren't comfortable shoving. If the fish is to act before the nitty player, I'm definitely shoving, because the fish probably isn't folding to any bet after calling OTF, and the nit/tag will likely feel he is priced in with his set/Ad after the fish calls the turn shove. OTOH, if the nit is acting before the fish I'm betting about $195, below the secondary psychological barrier of $200 for the nit, and pricing the fish in. I'm rarely expecting to be raised on the turn by the nit, and if the fish raises, it's an easy fold.

As played, on the river:

If it's another diamond, I'm c/f since there is a very high chance that one of them has the Ad (especially the fish, nit I'm not as worried about regarding a high diamond besides AdAx.) Both players are almost certainly checking behind sets/2p on a diamond river.

If the board pairs I'm c/f as well, since I doubt either of them is going to bet river without a boat given your line.

If the river bricks, then I'm shoving and hoping to get called by 2p+ from the nit, and TP+ from the fish.
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-02-2014 , 10:19 AM
^^ This. Excellent post Corto.
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-02-2014 , 06:25 PM
Is our stack size 600 or 400?
What are stack sizes of the 3 players on the turn?
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-02-2014 , 10:47 PM
Fold PF. SCs suck OOP. Against multiway villains, the only way you can call pre is if you're up against a big PP and villain can't fold post flop with overpair. Bet $65 for value on flop. $90 is way too much and may push out nut flush draw or AA no diamond, etc which is a disaster. $120 is good bet on turn to charge draws and get value. We don't want to shove unless we know villain will call with a lot worse. Check fold diamond rivers. Bet fold river. Even if board pairs, you should still bet fold for value AND to reduce chances of being bluffed or a worse value hand betting
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-02-2014 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crsseyed
Is our stack size 600 or 400?
What are stack sizes of the 3 players on the turn?
Hero Stack 750, Villain 1 Stack $600+ (TAG/NIT) MP 2, Villain 2 (Fish) $400
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-02-2014 , 11:15 PM
I like your play so far. Preflop your getting good odds and decent implied odds, I would see this flop most of the time. Flop is obvious donk bet, you need to thin this crowd before another diamond hit.

When the flop bet gets two calls I'm not happy. However, both could be on worse hands or still drawing so betting turn is right. When the turn bet gets 2 calls, I'm getting worried that somebody flopped a better flush.

If the river is a diamond or pairs the board you have to check/puke fold river. If the river is a blank, I'm checking and hoping to see who has the best hand cheaply. I'll call it off if the fish shoves, but if the nit shoves I fold, he should have a higher flush most of the time.
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-03-2014 , 11:19 AM
Bet more on turn, close to pot size, say 220(pot is~250).

If fish has higher made flush here on turn, I'm stacking off for 80BB.

I just can't put UTG nit(initial raise preflop) on a flopped flush. We now need to charge big for draws.
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-03-2014 , 11:08 PM
Thanks for all the input, i really appreciate your thought process and feedback.

Villain 1 (MP 2) called the initial UTG nit (they were floating each other all night) plays somewhere between a nit and a tag. He never raises OPP with AK or mid strength pocket pairs. Seen him lay down JJ to a 3bet. So he has a hand.

Villain 2: Fish (CO) steaming from previous hand lost $200 with pockets 443 called down 3 streets when on BTN v BB barreling on a scary board, all over-cards and BB hit A on flop.

River: Qh; I really hate this card as it hit Villains 1 range, at this stage I am not really concerned about the fish. If he shoves I call.

As I am first to act I check, and plan to call a shove only from the fish.

Villian 1 bets $75, fish instant calls, I tank and make the call as a bluff catcher for $75 for a pot of $750 +. At the time I think I have the odds to call, but in reality this was a value bet from the nuts.

Showdown: Villain 1: KhQd full house, Villain 2: AdJh (straight draw missed, & 4 card flush missed)

In the cold light of day, I cannot believe I made the call, as if a D fell it was going to be a check/fold.

I really need to post more hands in the future, I live in Perth (Western Australia) and the only live games that I can find is 2/5 or 5/5. I would perfer a lower limit, but on weekends the tables are full of cashed up miners, but their is a few decent regs and sharks about. The staff are not really helpful when u try and move tables, to get off a reg infested table.
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-03-2014 , 11:21 PM
Although my initial advice was to c/f a paired river, for this price we can't ever fold I think. Considering how ridiculously small it is, it's quite possibly a AxQd or QdJx betting. Obviously the fish's calling range is even wider than we thought, so his call doesn't diminish our relative hand value much.
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-03-2014 , 11:46 PM
1 other question if the river bricks; what line would you take:

Pot is 600 or so, I have $560 in my stack, Villain 1 around $400 and Villain 2 $200.

I was planing to bet around 200 or should I just jam.

I am sort of struggling on the river recently I have the nuts or 2nd nuts and I don't get enough value.
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-04-2014 , 02:43 AM
On a blank river I'm just jamming, since most nit/tags at LLSNL don't like to fold 2p+ since they make a hand so rarely. Whether or not the nit calls will not affect the calling frequency of the fish, so the river bet is all about extracting value from the 'nit', who likely has 2p or a set.
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-04-2014 , 03:23 AM
shove turn

also donk 65 on the flop which would make a turn shove closer to 100% pot
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-04-2014 , 03:46 AM
Ask for a misdeal. Too many Qh
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-04-2014 , 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAA44
Ask for a misdeal. Too many Qh
This - was the river queen (heh) a diamond?

If a fourth diamond hit - and the board paired I don't care how cheap the river was, it's an easy fold.

Bet much bigger on the turn, and it's a bet/fold. Only a bigger flopped flush will raise, and you really want to get the Adx or Pair + Big diamond card hands out.
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-04-2014 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Eyed Samurai
This - was the river queen (heh) a diamond?

If a fourth diamond hit - and the board paired I don't care how cheap the river was, it's an easy fold.

Bet much bigger on the turn, and it's a bet/fold. Only a bigger flopped flush will raise, and you really want to get the Adx or Pair + Big diamond card hands out.
No river was a Qh, no 4th Diamond. Turn and River was Qc,Qh,
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote
02-04-2014 , 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAA44
Ask for a misdeal. Too many Qh
Lol ur right was its was Qc Qh
Flopped Flush in BB against 5 callers OPP 2/5 FR Quote

      
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