1/3
200 effective

straddle on
Hero CO 22dh

SB raise 20. Raising quite a bit pre
Straddle calls
Hero calls

Flop is 25Qxxs
SB CHECK
Co 15
Hero call
Sb fold

Turn 7s I think, I remember it was a spade and lower than 7
V bet 15
Hero call

River As
V jam 80

This guy was playing very loose pre. Flop and turn bet seems weak. But on the river is this an example of him "waking up"? In terms of pot odds I believe I am getting a good odds vs range that would take a BBB line. But typically V at this range are not balance on river. I figured perhaps V could be betting a rivered 2p. But the straight and FD gets there.

Also sorry perhaps the stack sizes might be messed up at some point in the hand.

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fold pre, snap call riv. likely rivered 2p with weak bet sizing
At this stack depth just get the money in ASAP, raise flop/turn just raise somewhere

Raise flop, shove turn.

Oh, yeah, and fold pre, if we plan to play "no set, no bet".

Only thing that is calling that is Qx

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Sure

What do we think a passive fish is betting 2/3 streets with?

Who is the loose passive fish here? It's certainly not V. H butchered this hand, raise flop or turn and play for stacks. You said V is only going to call Qx to a raise... what do you think the majority of his range is? As played, snap call.

So we limped, SB raised, straddle called, and we called? It's a really meh call. First it's for huge 10% of stacks, so our IO are a really sucky 11:1 for ~setmining. Second, SB has been raisey so he's rarely going to have anything postflop worth stacking off with if we hit, but if he's cbetty we'll often have to fold to a flop bet anyways if we whiff (what, our plan is to call a flop cbet, possibly multiway, with 4th pair?).

Anyhoo, SPR is 3 on the flop (which, FWIW, typically indicates we've made a setmining error unless we've went super multiway) so we can easily get in stacks whenever we feel like it especially in position. So on this drawless board I'm fine with just flatting the small donk and hoping SB comes along for the ride.

Next time post pot sizes on each street. On the turn the pot is $90 and we have $165 left. If we just call the lol $15 donk the pot will be $110 with $150 left, so an overbet will be required on the river to play for stacks. I'd do a small raise here, even a lol 3x raise to $45 (which is only half of the original pot) will setup a $180 pot for an easy peasy $120 river shove.

Your effective stacks or betsizing is way off if Villain is jamming $80 on the river; he should have $200 - $20 - $15 - $15 = $150 left. Anyhoo, pot is now $110 and he's jamming just $80 (which is fairly small with regards to size of pot and very small with regards to what $$$ go into the pot in a 1/3 NL game). Snap call, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Fold pre. Stacks need to get on the turn or make river trivial--multiple ways to do that. As played snap river.

The HH indicates that the Q was a spade. So what is he leading out here? It's very unlikely he had any piece of this board with a bdfd. He may have 34 or 55 and that's just a cooler. But he has more combos of A4, A5, A2, or even A3 or A4.

If you folded river, you misplayed every street pretty poorly IMO.

Maybe passive fish was the wrong word, but this guy was getting to showdown with questionable hands that weren't always strong and winning.

For specifically set mining odds do we always want 15:1? But if we had a higher pair we can maybe call with less IO, because of the direct odds vs. a loose iso raise?

In this session I started to realize that I was limp folding quite a bit (with appropriate hands), but then I realized that V's were iso raising quite wide. Someone mentioned they had raised with J2o, and saw this same V in this hand raise with A2o in a different hand and c-bet with air on the turn.


Something that I am struggling with is what my raising range should be on certain board textures. I learned on dry boards we shouldn't have a raising range. But I suppose the small SPR changes things here? Or is because of the player type that we should be raising?

Here's something I have kind of picked up having played this game for a few years now. Even though mathematically it makes sense we want to be calling because of the pot odds, a lot of the times V's at this level are not getting to the river with the appropriate range so their river jamming line is typically nutted. In other words, V's are rarely putting in the 3rd bet with less than the nuts, and checking back a lot of their showdown type hands. But then again because this player was getting to the river quite wide thats why I could possibly put him on a 2p type hand.


So you would agree to raise turn small and jam river? Or just jam turn?



Also sorry about the HH being so choppy, I usually have my phone on me and take notes right after the hand but I had it charging in this hand so my memory was fuzzy.

Just some quick point form answers:

- IO are a lot more complicated than just stack size; stack size will obviously put a limit on what you can win and therefore outright rule out some hands that you are just playing for IO; however, just cuz effective stacks do offer great maximum IO isn't the be-all end-all regarding IO; position and opponent skill are major factors; sitting OOP to [insert fave pro poker player] facing a $20 raise with $1000 stacks behind, you actually have very little IO (although it deceivingly looks like your IO are 50:1, but that isn't remotely the case)

- against a loose raiser, your IO are diminished even more because there is just that less chance he's actually going to have a hand worthy of stacking off with postflop; you're much better off calling a raise from a nit who's range is big overpairs; and, yeah, your small pair may be best, but big deal, cuz what's your plan postflop / how many postflop bets are you planning on calling with 4th pair?

- in general you're probably better off raising monsters on drawy boards than dry ones because (a) your opponent can easily put you on a draw instead of a monster and (b) your opponent might have that draw (which he ain't folding)

- my main reason for raising the turn is to make it very easy to get stacks in play by the river; your OP is confusing regarding stack sizes we're dealing with, but when you want to play for stacks by the river you mostly want to leave like ~2/3 PSB +/- left for a river shove so it's not a huge shove (both in terms of percentage of pot and in terms of $$$ for the stakes you are playing)

- I agree that having a player make a 3rd postflop bet for stacks is something to be concerned about; however, in this case the bet is very small in terms of $$$ ($80 flies around like nothing in my typical 1/3 NL game) plus there are still a lotta worse hands that he can be shoving for "value" here; we will definitely run into better some of the time, but not enough of the time for a call here to be unprofitable

GimoG