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Flop Set of Jacks 1/2nl Flop Set of Jacks 1/2nl

01-14-2014 , 12:21 PM
Ok this hand really had me floored because I knew I was way ahead and wanted to extract value from the hand as I've overall had good luck with flopping a set of Jacks.
V1 BB 220 behind- Younger guy seems to be on vacation and not a reg player and I've seen him get out bet out of a previous flop where he was ahead with middle pair.
V2 EP 280 behind-Old Reg, very moody and just mentioned he is tired and going home soon, but he just sat down and saw him go All in with A- 10os and chop a pot in the previous hand. So he'll pretty much call anything.
Hero LP-210 behind Has a Tagish image- has won several pots uncontested without showing down.

V2 bets 10 and says is 10 dollar bet okay? Hero in LP calls with JJ and the V1 in BB calls.
Pot:32

FLOP
QJ7

V1Checks V2 bets $40 at this point I had a feeling that V2 had either AA or KK because he looked displeased with the two spades but thought he was ahead with his bigger pair and just wanted to take down pot. Hero calls $40 in hopes of shutting down pot on the river because I figured he was ready to go All- In now. V1 looks us both up and down but seems pretty nervous about his hand and then tanks and pushes All-In. V2 immediately goes All-in too. Hero Calls with set of jacks and I knew I was ahead at this point and wanted them all to go all in.

Turn 2 River A

V1 turns over AQ V2 AA
V2 seemed like he was going All in no matter what so I'm wondering if there is anyway to get away from this. The only thing I can figure is reraising on the flop to try and represent a set but I think that V2 is too much of a donk to get away from his rockets.
Flop Set of Jacks 1/2nl Quote
01-14-2014 , 12:25 PM
no there is really no way to get away from it with those stacks, stuff like this does happen. nothing you can do about it.

also, the guy who looked displeased with the flop could very easily be hollywooding and giving a reverse tell so don't take that too seriously.
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01-14-2014 , 12:26 PM
Cooler. If you raise flop villain 2 might fold but this is llsnl and with all those draws out there I doubt he is folding. You are bein results oriented
Flop Set of Jacks 1/2nl Quote
01-14-2014 , 12:26 PM
3-bet preflop. Raise the flop. There are so many bad cards that can come on the turn that will either put you behind, or kill your action. You have a captive villain, don't let him off the hook.

As played, no, you are never folding. You got all the money in as a huge favourite against 2 other players. It was basically a dream situation for you, as the 2 villains had a combined 1 out. You got unlucky, that's all.
Flop Set of Jacks 1/2nl Quote
01-14-2014 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
no there is really no way to get away from it with those stacks, stuff like this does happen. nothing you can do about it.

also, the guy who looked displeased with the flop could very easily be hollywooding and giving a reverse tell so don't take that too seriously.
He's asking if villain 2 can ever fold flop here if OP were to take a different line
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01-14-2014 , 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshady1999
He's asking if villain 2 can ever fold flop here if OP were to take a different line
I think this pretty much answers it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mose
V2 EP 280 behind-Old Reg, very moody and just mentioned he is tired and going home soon, but he just sat down and saw him go All in with A- 10os and chop a pot in the previous hand. So he'll pretty much call anything.
I don't see him folding here, unless he was a nit who you can push him off of AA. Usually, you can push these types off of a high PP.

With massive draws on that flop, you don't really wana give people cheap cards.
Flop Set of Jacks 1/2nl Quote
01-14-2014 , 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubey
3-bet preflop. Raise the flop. There are so many bad cards that can come on the turn that will either put you behind, or kill your action. You have a captive villain, don't let him off the hook.

As played, no, you are never folding. You got all the money in as a huge favourite against 2 other players. It was basically a dream situation for you, as the 2 villains had a combined 1 out. You got unlucky, that's all.
If I 3bet Pf V2 will push.
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01-14-2014 , 12:35 PM
if you 3bet pf what are you doing to a 4bet? that is why you may not wana do it.
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01-14-2014 , 12:36 PM
results oriented thinking OP, sounds like you're asking how to get away from a set vs. an overpair otf when you know the other guy's gonna spike a better set on the river. situations like this you just get the chips in and move on to the next hand really. most of the time you get his stack, he just got lucky.
Flop Set of Jacks 1/2nl Quote
01-14-2014 , 12:38 PM
So I'd like to take a moment and point something out here.

On the flop, we have the second best hand possible.
We got all of the money in, 3 ways, with two people who were collectively drawing pretty much dead.

Board: Qs Js 5c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 92.913% 92.91% 00.00% 839 0.00 { JcJd }
Hand 1: 05.426% 04.54% 00.89% 41 8.00 { AdAh }
Hand 2: 01.661% 00.78% 00.89% 7 8.00 { AcQh }

Take a look at this. Think about what this implies. It implies that 92/100 you are going to take all the money on the table.

Why do you want the person with AA to fold here, when he's only got 4% chance to win?
You don't want him to put his money in the pot when he's only going to win 4% of the time? 1 in 25 times? Of course you want his money in there. Anything that you do that makes him fold is bad for you.

Try to keep this in mind.
When we have the majority of the equity, a dominating amount really. Don't get them to fold. Just run better.
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01-14-2014 , 12:40 PM
3bet pre is a spew.

not sure the question post flop. Should you raise OR after he leads? with stack sizes its kind of awkward but I would.
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01-14-2014 , 12:42 PM
OP if you REALLY want villain to fold here, then it's really simple. Wait til villain 2 bets flop, then Flip up your cards face up so both villains can see clearly. Then tell villains you don't want to get 2 outted, then shove flop. I guarantee you both villains will fold, you will the pot 100% and you avoid a suckout.
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01-14-2014 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hainesy_2KT
results oriented thinking OP, sounds like you're asking how to get away from a set vs. an overpair otf when you know the other guy's gonna spike a better set on the river. situations like this you just get the chips in and move on to the next hand really. most of the time you get his stack, he just got lucky.
Thanks for the replies. I don't mean to come off as being results oriented because I know in the long run this hand is going to make me big $ 99% of the time and has. I just have a tendency at this level to try and extract value from my middle sets against donks. A cooler indeed.
Flop Set of Jacks 1/2nl Quote
01-14-2014 , 12:42 PM
OP you got it all in with the effective nuts. What exactly are you trying to "get away" from?

Sometimes people hit two outers. You need to realize you made a significant amount of money this hand, and move on.
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01-14-2014 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mose
If I 3bet Pf V2 will push.
I think you're using information from the end of this hand retroactively to inform this kind of statement. Your description of V2 as a tired, moody Reg who stacks off with A10o should have influenced your decision to 3bet pf here, not the post hoc fact that he ended up having AA.
Flop Set of Jacks 1/2nl Quote
01-14-2014 , 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshady1999
OP if you REALLY want villain to fold here, then it's really simple. Wait til villain 2 bets flop, then Flip up your cards face up so both villains can see clearly. Then tell villains you don't want to get 2 outted, then shove flop. I guarantee you both villains will fold, you will the pot 100% and you avoid a suckout.
Some casinos will kill your hand with this move
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01-14-2014 , 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
OP you got it all in with the effective nuts. What exactly are you trying to "get away" from?

Sometimes people hit two outers. You need to realize you made a significant amount of money this hand, and move on.

Same retroactive psychology that my above post pertains to. OP is using information gained only at the end of the hand as if he had that knowledge at the beginning of the hand. This is a standard spot, where if the money did NOT get all in, then something would be wrong.
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01-14-2014 , 03:04 PM
You got exactly what you wanted all the way ... until the River.

PF .. beware the speech .. a 'going home' or really any comment from someone who just sat down is something to at least pay attention to, especially PF AFTER the cards have been dealt ESPECIALLY from an older gentleman. Results comment: If you 3 bet PF here you either fold or get it all-in with 33% less money. I like being in late position here with these 2 opponents. If you raise here all you do is bloat the pot with over 35% chance an overcard hits the Flop ... then what?

Flop: Same results comment .. any raise here may scare off come chips and you already know that either you or AA will shove 'any' Turn so why press the issue. Yes, there are a few scare cards that may come out on Turn, but you will have 'decent' redraw outs on River. If you had 2 pair here instead, then maybe you shove this board but with an opponent who is very likely to call it's usually better to just let them keep betting into you.

Is it possible to get AA to fold ... proably never, especially with history and comment in play.

This hand played out in the best possible way .. you got 2 opponents to put money into the pot in extremely bad shape, one basically drawing dead. Can you play it differently? Sure but I think you miss out on some chips in the middle if you press the issue PF or Flop here.

By just calling the Turn you can look a little bit weaker than you really are, but with position you will force the issue by shoving any Turn anyway so it doesn't really matter. Even if AQ has 910s instead you want the same end result on the Flop with all the money in the middle.

Just a cooler .. next time ... GL
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01-14-2014 , 04:32 PM
You are never getting away from this hand.
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01-14-2014 , 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
You need to realize you made a significant amount of money this hand, and move on.
Well, he made Sklansky bucks, not so much real bucks.
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