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Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5

11-06-2013 , 02:00 AM
Villian-very solid laggy Asian. He is capable of all the good stuff. 3 bets more than rest of table, aggressive and reads boards well. Maybe a little too gambooly, buy not a maniac.

Hero- Playing kinda snug. Previously won decent pot off Villian where I 3 bet his button raise from the sb and took it down with a psb on flop. I'm a younger looking white dude.

Hand- Villian opens for 25 on button. I click it back to 50 from sb with QcQh. Villian jokingly says, "aces again?", in which I reply, "You know it". Villian flats. He has $400 and I have him covered.

Flop- KdQs10d (100$)
I lead for 100, Villian calls fairly quickly.

Turn-KdQs10dJc ($300) hero???
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 02:05 AM
So $300 left behind, right? Ugly turn, of course. If you push, he's obviously not folding an Ace. You're not folding, right? I make a $150 bet and snap call a shove. You've got ten outs if he's got it...unless he's got AK...

Also I make it at least $75 pre - maybe $90. Set up SPR where it's under 3 and you have an easy commit on all but the worst flops.
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 02:09 AM
Check turn. I think it's very unlikely for him to bluff turn and river so I would check call about $150 or less and shove river if it pairs but check fold blanks
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 02:10 AM
Bet calling or bet folding is terrible. It's hard to get called by worse on turn and it doesn't make sense to commit your stack on a 23% shot when u can check call for less and get paid off when you hit and lose less when you miss
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 02:12 AM
You are 23% to win on turn against a straight so you need a little over 3:1. You can expect to stack villain if you hit. Also tiny chance an ace peeps on river and you chop. Check call turn
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 02:14 AM
So if villain shoves, we fold?
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 03:37 AM
I would c/f here. He isn't bluffing anywhere near enough to call a bet.
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 05:28 AM
3-bet bigger preflop. I would c/f turn since that board obv hits our range hard and most ppl won't turn 2 pair into a bluff and he's probably expecting us to call with a set.
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 05:39 AM
Just c/f turn

He's gotta have AK or AQdd here

I think almost every other value hand you have beat is raising that flop, am I wrong?

I guess stuff like 86dd is possible but would he bet turn with that? I don't think most 2/5 players, but a solid thinking LAG might after you check flop. The only way I think you can c/c here is if you think he's capable of bluffing in good spots and will call 3bets with suited connector type hands preflop.
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 05:40 AM
And yea 3bet bigger
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke0424
Just c/f turn

He's gotta have AK or AQdd here

I think almost every other value hand you have beat is raising that flop, am I wrong?

I guess stuff like 86dd is possible but would he bet turn with that? I don't think most 2/5 players, but a solid thinking LAG might after you check flop. The only way I think you can c/c here is if you think he's capable of bluffing in good spots and will call 3bets with suited connector type hands preflop.
He had shown me big bluffs he made against others and if I check he is 100% bombing the turn.
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshady1999
You are 23% to win on turn against a straight so you need a little over 3:1. You can expect to stack villain if you hit. Also tiny chance an ace peeps on river and you chop. Check call turn
slimshady has the right of it here.

If we get the odds to call on turn, then we call turn. So we check turn hoping V either checks back or makes the mistake of pricing us in with direct + implied odds.

If V doesn't have an ace, he is almost never bluffing turn since Ace is in our range. If V does have an ace, he is never folding and can/will often make the mistake of pricing us in on turn. ANd in that case again, if we have the correct odds to call for our draw then we call for our draw. It just so happens that in this case our draw is a fullhouse. but the principles of poker still apply. If we are on a draw and have the correct odds to draw then we draw. Why does that change simply because we have a set??? Winning principles are winning principles regardless of what we have...

And if we hit on river we can monkey shove and he is never folding his Ace...

so yeah, basically everything slimshady said

and yeah, don't get cute with your preflop 3-bets. Min-raising QQ is semi-******ed. Just 3x his raise... The only reason to min-raise is if you and him are in a leveling war and you are fairly sure you can induce him to shove over the top with a range of weaker hands by min-raising... Otherwise, min-raising just for the sake of min-raising is bad. If you min-raise, you need definite quantifiable reasons for min-raising vs "this" particular villain...
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris
slimshady has the right of it here.

If we get the odds to call on turn, then we call turn. So we check turn hoping V either checks back or makes the mistake of pricing us in with direct + implied odds.

If V doesn't have an ace, he is almost never bluffing turn since Ace is in our range. If V does have an ace, he is never folding and can/will often make the mistake of pricing us in on turn. ANd in that case again, if we have the correct odds to call for our draw then we call for our draw. It just so happens that in this case our draw is a fullhouse. but the principles of poker still apply. If we are on a draw and have the correct odds to draw then we draw. Why does that change simply because we have a set??? Winning principles are winning principles regardless of what we have...

And if we hit on river we can monkey shove and he is never folding his Ace...

so yeah, basically everything slimshady said

and yeah, don't get cute with your preflop 3-bets. Min-raising QQ is semi-******ed. Just 3x his raise...
Yea of course draw if you have the odds

But if he bets turn and we don't have the odds to draw, are you folding now?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using 2+2 Forums
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 04:52 PM
Pre is horrendous btw
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 05:14 PM
I min raised to induce because I had 3 bet him already that orbit. I had reason to believe he would spazz pretty often. He was super aggro and was not happy when I 3! and took it down with a psb on flop.
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 05:29 PM
I put out a block bet because any thinking lag is betting that turn card. Your range is all over that board and you either are sitting with 2P, set, of already have the straight. I'd make my turn bet look like its for value, whatever your value bets normally look like
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke0424
Yea of course draw if you have the odds

But if he bets turn and we don't have the odds to draw, are you folding now?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using 2+2 Forums
yes,

if he bets turn and we don't have the direct + implied odds to profitably call, then I fold without a second thought...
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple7quinn
I put out a block bet because any thinking lag is betting that turn card. Your range is all over that board and you either are sitting with 2P, set, of already have the straight. I'd make my turn bet look like its for value, whatever your value bets normally look like
Does a thinking lag really believe Hero would min 3b KT/KJ/KQ/QJ pf? If his range for Hero is QQ+/AK and he doesn't have an ace, this is an obv check back. 75% of Hero's range is the stone nuts, and Villain doesn't KNOW that he'll fold the remaining 25%.

Easy c/f unless being given correct odds to boat up, as a few people have said.
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-06-2013 , 06:39 PM
against a thinking, aggressive villain, I don't know how we can possibly check/fold here.
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-14-2013 , 06:03 AM
I wasn't gonna let dude just bluff me so I was never checking. I bet 150 in stride and he insta-mucked
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-14-2013 , 12:30 PM
The old art of the min-raise PF.
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-14-2013 , 05:07 PM
Pfr is awful imo, he is getting decent odds and calling more. Also if he 3b a lot he might 4b happy in this spot so raise more, rep a bruff, give him a chance to stack off.

Turn is the nut bad card in the deck, I kind of like a check here.
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-15-2013 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForesstGump
I wasn't gonna let dude just bluff me so I was never checking. I bet 150 in stride and he insta-mucked
So you turned your hand into a bluff? Were you planning to fold if he shoved for your remaining $100? Why not just check-call?
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote
11-15-2013 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForesstGump
I wasn't gonna let dude just bluff me so I was never checking. I bet 150 in stride and he insta-mucked
If I was sure I was ahead (which you must have been since you bet $150) and I was sure he was going to bet if I checked, why not check/shove and get more from him?
Flop set, grossest turn. 2/5 Quote

      
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