2/5 playing fairly deep

Villian 1 : Super nitty 1 dimensional player. No leveling, not capable of making weird plays. $1500

Villian 2 : Wildest gambling maniac alive. Hates folding, never gives up on a draw, capable of anything. $1000

Both villains limp in and I raise with 1010 to $30. Both villians call.

Flop : 10d Jd Jh

check, check, and I check

5h. Villian 1 bets $80, loose maniac villain 2 calls $80, I grab all the green $25 chips I have and nonchalantly plop them into the pot. I thought it was $250, but it was actually $275.

Villain 1 speed folds and villain 2 goes into the tank. After long deliberation he folds 22 face up.

Did I completely screw this hand up?

I have absolutely no idea why would you want to check the flop behind, especially when this deep (I am assuming you have at least one of them covered, you did not mention your stack size).

Most hands that are folding to your flop bet are folding on turn anyways, many of them even if they "catch up"


As played I am definitely raising the turn bigger as on such board and with you holding two tens, their ranges are very weighted towards draws and you are getting just one street of value against all that don't hit the river, which is going to happen ~80% of the time.

Bet 3 streets as big as you think maniac will call unless nit goes crazy somewhere along the way and he never has just Jx.

bet flop

Sorry...I started the hand with about $1200

Yeah, you're right. A flop bet it going to get more value out of the draws. I checked the flop in this case because I was in position and thought I might get someone to bluff the turn, bet their draw and get raised, or end up turning a full house with a small pair (obv not very likely).

In non-results orientated thinking, in this case a flop bet results in 2 c-folds.

No idea why u think that on a paired board with a maniac that he just gives up after nit folds.

Put the expected bet out there with you taking control pre and let maniac act like a maniac

for the small amount of times he has a Jack, your only (reasonable) chance of stacking him is betting the flop.

btw you aren't doing as amazing vs a Jack as you might think. it's def not a complete lock hand or a spot to slowplay.

I can see a check with JJ or even maybe AA (just so you don't have to stack off vs the maniac).

but here i'd just pray he has a J or a straight draw and start building a pot. give him a chance to make a mistake. he can't make a mistake if you check

Agree with all above. Bet flop as indicated above: charge draws, build toward stacking a jack. Main reason to check is to let a straight or flush catch up, but those draws will call a reasonable pot bet. Bet like 50-75% of the pot.

Another advantage here is that your bet balances the range of your cbets. IP with AK I'm probably c-betting this flop, so following through here guards that range. Who knows, maybe maniac will try the c/r to pick off your c-bet -- happens more often than you might think.

TL/DR -- bet flop.

As played, IMO, call turn. Hope that maybe V2 reads you on a draw / lower PP, misses the river and bets hard when V1 checks. I think your raise folds out everything that would call except nut flush / straight draws (call behind still fine; he'll bluff the river a bunch, and you want that hand to hit) and hands you're going to stack no matter what you do (55).

All good comments. Thanks fellas.

I really like the thought process of trying to instigate a c-raise from someone who reads that I'm simply on a continuation bet. It's highly unlikely to come from villain 1..but villain 2 is absolutely capable of this. If he makes that c-raise, hes going to barrel turn cards that he thinks are safe and don't complete any draw he might think I have.

I definitely have a problem with resorting to auto-checking flops when I flop monsters. It's probably because I have a strong reputation among all the regulars. I've built quite a nitty TAG rep and a lot of players shut down or play super cautious post flop against me when Im in the driver's seat.

Then you need to start bluffing more as opposed to shutting down when you get a monster in fear everyone will fold.

If you are going to take a weak line like checking behind on that board you have to flat turn or your range is likely overpairs+.

As played if the river bricks maniac could spew with his 22 but you have to let him try. You will make so much more money in the long run by building a bigger pot on the flop in position. Stop worrying about maniacs folding they hate to!


He isn't folding 22 for a single bet, and on that turn probably doesn't fold too often either. Forget about giving the nit a free card its a waste of time, focus on the easy money.

Checking flop this deep against a maniac is so bad

when you bet the flop the maniac can raise

Awesome, then start cbetting 100% of the time, including the monsters, the pairs, and the air.

Don't hide your big hands by playing them like small hands, hide them by playing more small hands like big hands.

Checking the flop seems so criminal i want to puke.


I just dont understand. Also im never folding, and you need to do some serious work on getting value with strong hands. Raise more pre.

Man...., this situation is a big money making opportunity.
Don't raise them yet. Just bet or call and say something to lure them in. This flop should be a great flop most of the time because of the JT combination. Usually when JT flops dudes hit some draws and you should expect most of the time in this situation to see action. JTx generates action.
You got FH and most of the time in this situation dudes will draw to str8s, flashes, or AJ with trips, all will give you action. This is definitely a betting flop. Actually betting got to get bigger and bigger on every street. Combine this with some smart talking and you'll be good to take down stacks.

grunch.

if V2 is calling $50 pre wide, then i'd raise to $50 pre for value and to get it heads up. Bet pot on flop. It's too draw heavy not to bet for value. KQ, Q9, 98, AQ, AK, and lots of FDs can call you but would rather check back themselves. Lead turn. CRing turns your hand face up as TT or Jx and even the loosest players can find a fold with small PP.