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Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game

04-17-2013 , 10:06 AM
Playing a home/club 1/2 game, six handed. First HH, so let me know if there's any formatting issues.

Villain is host of the game. We've played together a lot. Good player, pretty TAG but opens up pre a good bit on the button. Unlikely to get it in post-flop without a good hand, but I have seen him triple barrel with air before as well. He should know I'm a winning player at this game, probably thinks I'm a bit loose pre when opening. When we played together about a week and a half ago I bluffed him out of a pot on the river and showed.

Effective stacks are about $190.

Hero's UTG + 1 with QsQc. Folds to me, and I make it $10 to go. Folds to villain, who calls on the button. Blinds fold.

Flop (Pot $23) - KQ9r

Hero is first to act. I make it $20 to go, Villain raises to $45. I call. Thinking here is that I want to keep bluffs in, and am afraid if I reraise he could get away from a hand like AK.

Turn (Pot $113) - 5d, putting 2 diamonds on the board.

Hero is first to act. I check. Villain says "same bet" and puts out another $45. Hero?

Generally thinking my move is all-in here. Once I put my $45 in I have just another $100 behind. My range for villain is AK, KQ (though 3 of the Qs are accounted for) maybe KJ or KT, JT, pocket Ks (though think that raises pre), pocket 9s, and some air. Only concern is that Villain usually doesn't get it in for a big pot without something pretty good, or at least a reasonable drawing hand.

Thoughts? Anyone re-reraise on the flop?
Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game Quote
04-17-2013 , 10:11 AM
nice first post.

I highly doubt there are any bluffs in his range otf. this board smacks your ep opening range, so if he has a clue he is not doing this with nothing.

due to the drawy nature of the board and the many bad turn cards that can kill the action, raising otf looks like the best option. usually when llsnl opponents show strength like this they have a hand, so just get the money in now.

turn is a snap shove
Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game Quote
04-17-2013 , 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fogodchao
nice first post.

I highly doubt there are any bluffs in his range otf. this board smacks your ep opening range, so if he has a clue he is not doing this with nothing.

due to the drawy nature of the board and the many bad turn cards that can kill the action, raising otf looks like the best option. usually when llsnl opponents show strength like this they have a hand, so just get the money in now.

turn is a snap shove
Agree with is range minus AK, think he would have raised button given you said he thinks you have a wide range pre. Is flatting on the button with AK something he is capable of?

Either way shove after raised on flop, and def shove on turn.
Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game Quote
04-17-2013 , 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _*PSTONE*_
Agree with is range minus AK, think he would have raised button given you said he thinks you have a wide range pre. Is flatting on the button with AK something he is capable of?

Either way shove after raised on flop, and def shove on turn.
Fair point on AK, though I've definitely seen him flat on the button with AA and KK before against me heads-up. Don't know if he's capable of it with AK.
Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game Quote
04-17-2013 , 10:22 AM
Ship it. BTW way to bet oop after flopping a set, you dont see that often enough. I think as long as you have a aggressive image its usually the best move.

Looks like you played it flawlessly.
Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game Quote
04-17-2013 , 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdready
Ship it. BTW way to bet oop after flopping a set, you dont see that often enough. I think as long as you have a aggressive image its usually the best move.

Looks like you played it flawlessly.
I think not leading the flop here is almost criminal. I'm the pre-flop aggressor, so will be C-betting most of the time anyway, especially on the K high flop. Given the history here and the fact that villain would expect me to bet almost all the time on this flop, it's a must-bet.
Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game Quote
04-17-2013 , 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIB211
I think not leading the flop here is almost criminal. I'm the pre-flop aggressor, so will be C-betting most of the time anyway, especially on the K high flop. Given the history here and the fact that villain would expect me to bet almost all the time on this flop, it's a must-bet.
absolutely
Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game Quote
04-17-2013 , 01:46 PM
If possible, I would try to make it more preflop, something like $20 (unless that's a totally unheard of raise size at your table). This just sets up so much of an easier SPR where we could pot/shove safe boards.

I would also just lead out, with a plan of just bet/bet/shoving. I don't hate the flat, although there are a few cards that could come that could slow down action (a J/T puts 4-to-a-straight on board). If we're willing to risk those cards, I could see flatting and then donking the turn just to make sure he doesn't check back the turn (which will make getting stacks in difficult). Flatting does kinda create a weird stack on the turn (just a little over a PSB); shoving probably isn't horrible and might be best.

I'd probably just donk the turn to make sure I can get stacks in, especially before we give another chance at a scary J/T or a diamond showing up. Stacks are a little awkward in that we only have a little over a PSB left, so any bet is committing; I almost feel like shoving here. As played, super easy shove. I doubt he's putting in this much of his stack and folding, with the exception of complete air; even with draws he'll probably feel priced in to call. If we run into the straight, unlucky, just practice sucking out on the river.

GcluelessNLnoobG
Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game Quote
04-17-2013 , 01:50 PM
Results - I push, and Villain instacalls and flips up J10 of clubs. River's a brick and I rebuy.

At first thought this was just a cooler, but as I thought more about it not a lot of hands that this V will call with that I'm ahead of. Set of 9s clearly, maybe AK, definitely KQ or K9. However there aren't many combos of KQ, and there are a lot of combos of JT. So, while I'm usually of the view that with about 100 BBs I will go broke with a set on most boards, questioning my decisions here.
Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game Quote
04-17-2013 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
If possible, I would try to make it more preflop, something like $20 (unless that's a totally unheard of raise size at your table). This just sets up so much of an easier SPR where we could pot/shove safe boards.

I would also just lead out, with a plan of just bet/bet/shoving. I don't hate the flat, although there are a few cards that could come that could slow down action (a J/T puts 4-to-a-straight on board). If we're willing to risk those cards, I could see flatting and then donking the turn just to make sure he doesn't check back the turn (which will make getting stacks in difficult). Flatting does kinda create a weird stack on the turn (just a little over a PSB); shoving probably isn't horrible and might be best.

I'd probably just donk the turn to make sure I can get stacks in, especially before we give another chance at a scary J/T or a diamond showing up. Stacks are a little awkward in that we only have a little over a PSB left, so any bet is committing; I almost feel like shoving here. As played, super easy shove. I doubt he's putting in this much of his stack and folding, with the exception of complete air; even with draws he'll probably feel priced in to call. If we run into the straight, unlucky, just practice sucking out on the river.

GcluelessNLnoobG
Thanks GG, appreciate the advice. Thinking back on it and not being results-oriented, easiest way to get stacks in would have been to make a smallish ($50) bet on turn. If he folds, I wasn't getting any more anyway. If he calls, I push on river, and if he pushes I call.
Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game Quote
04-17-2013 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIB211
Results - I push, and Villain instacalls and flips up J10 of clubs. River's a brick and I rebuy.

At first thought this was just a cooler, but as I thought more about it not a lot of hands that this V will call with that I'm ahead of. Set of 9s clearly, maybe AK, definitely KQ or K9. However there aren't many combos of KQ, and there are a lot of combos of JT. So, while I'm usually of the view that with about 100 BBs I will go broke with a set on most boards, questioning my decisions here.
I am never considering anything other than playing for stacks on this flop. We're crushing AK/AQ/AJ/AT/KQ/KJ/KT/K9/QJ/QT/Q9/99/55/JJ/TT/J9/T9 + other stuff, all of which could pay off multiple bets (and the weakish one pair hands might even hero call shoves due to our bluffing history). Standard cooler.
Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game Quote
04-17-2013 , 03:08 PM
I think you played the hand well OP. There isn't much reason to 3-bet the flop when the only turn cards we're afraid of are a J or a T, and he could fold a lot of hands we want to get value from. Donking the turn is good if his flop raising range contains a lot of medium strength hands like KJ/KT but if it's more polarized then I prefer CRAI.
Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game Quote
04-17-2013 , 05:19 PM
Flop middle set and you are worried why? I don't really see how this is negative EV. Stop nitting around and put your stack in.
Flop Middle Set - 1/2 Home Game Quote
04-17-2013 , 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringdaddy27
Flop middle set and you are worried why? I don't really see how this is negative EV. Stop nitting around and put your stack in.
In game, my only thought was getting all the moneys in the middle. Was worried that was a bit of a leak because JT, which is a common calling hand, beat me, but seems like people think it's the right approach.
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