This is not true at all with respect to most players. Maybe pros play at the highest level they're rolled for, but I assume most recs are very well rolled for their level. I play 1/2 deepstack or 2/5 for $500 buy in and would never run out of bankroll, because poker would stop being fun for me (because losing sucks) long before I ran out of cash. I suspect most recs, especially those out of their 20s, that you play with are the same.

That's not at all what I'm saying. (I actually agree with the rest of your post.) My point was only that if you're not comfortable putting in lots of chips in marginal spots, flatting J9s against a thinking LAG is a bad idea. Because what exactly do we expect to happen?

Sure, in a vacuum, lots of 1/3 players would not be rolled to take this gamble. In this case though, we're choosing to play 5BI deep and we're calling a raise & 3b with J9s, so I made what I thought was a reasonable assumption that we're overrolled for regular 1/3 games.

I totally agree that calling pre was a big mistake. I just don't think that because he made that mistake pre that he has to make a mistake post (if calling flop is a mistake, which in this case I think it is) I guess I've seen it said a few times in the thread essentially "If we do X then we have to do Y" like "If we call with J9ss we have to stack off with it" which I just think is incorrect. Sorry if you didn't mean it that way.

Also, totally unrelated I dont think that V1 has many AsX, even AsKx. If he's above average (as Op says) then a pretty basic calculation of odds would make it pretty obvious that hes not getting the price to call with AsKx against sets or any flushes and it's -EV. That's not to say that he cant make a mistake but just the fact that he didnt even pause to consider the odds makes me lean more towards flushes and sets himself.

Without reads that at least one of these players has lost their mind because theyve been playing a long session, If I'm playing my A game i fold here. A good, thinking player, who 3 bet pre snap called a $1,500 shove. I think we're just too deep to get it in with the 3rd nuts. Hustler will show up with smaller flushes and good reg will show up with KK sometimes but I think more often than not you're just gonna be dead here to the 2nd nut's or the nuts.

We could flop a straight, or top two, or trip 9's. All of which I would feel more comfortable calling off 400BB's than the third nut flush.

When you hit a non-nut flush, your goal is to win a medium pot. Once the pot gets too big, you're drawing dead way too often.

First, to address the standard fold-pre responses, I get it.
But, I'm not folding a suited connector/1 gapper on my own button straddle to a $36 raise when we're all 400BB deep. I think calling in that spot is pretty standard live, I wanna play hands with these guys, and in most normal scenarios this is the kind of flop that I can win a huge pot on, of if I flop a combo/trips, etc.

But, based on this action, I did fold.
I just couldn't see this dude calling off $1,400 without having AQ, A10 A2 or Q10

So, now the fun part

Villain 2 open shoved with A4 because I guess his brain fell out, and he really wanted to win the $395 in the middle and stick it in Villain 1 who he didn't like.

Villain 1, knowing he just wanted to hurt him, and because he had what he had, snapped with KK
Why he flatted the $95 3bet pre, I have no idea...

Turn 2
River 7

Dude wins $3,200 pot with 4 high flush.
LOL live poker.

This.
Fear of playing this deep isn't entering the equation for me, it's the action and situation.

I'm more than happy piling in the money on a variety of flops, I just feel like Villain 1 here could have us drawing dead as we shovel in $1,300

Well, I guess one of them did lose their mind. What a beautiful time to be alive for Villain 2. I hope he stood up and celebrated with a "woooooohooooo!!!!!".

Wasn't the 4 of spades on the board?

He kinda looked embarrassed actually.

Yes.
You're right it was a 3 sorry.

I forgot, it was little spade/little spade with the King.

Psychologically, my brain could chalk it up to a cooler if I run into the nuts in this spot. It would sting, but I'd be over it within a day or 2.

Incorrectly hero folding the third nuts in a 1200 BB pot would haunt me for months.

And for that reason, I would call in what I feel like is a pretty close to neutral EV spot.

Quickness of call, and the way he audibly said it. Like I said, it was "[Yeah... Obviously... I]Call"

Fold
Won like $1,500 instead of $4,300. Oh well

I was pretty much past it on the next hand, party due to comedic nature of the hand in general. I play a ton, and don't really let that stuff bother me too much.

I personally don't mind the fold, I just think that given what I know about the Villain 1 and the way he called that I'm drawing dead there enough to sigh-fold.

Fair enough.

*sigh* - no

The "good" player raised to $36 pre from (presumably) MP after BB called the $6 straddle and V2 limped the $6 straddle, and then tank/called the $95 l/rr from the BB after V2 called and (presumably) expecting Hero to come along as well for $95.

V1's range is incredibly wide here and uncapped. He's just as likely to have premium PP's as he is an AX hand and smaller SC's. The tank can be interpreted multiple ways, such as a middling strength or speculative hand like Kx:Q or T8 or 66, or a premium hand such as AA/KK that is looking to entice action behind. If I had AA/KK I would probably flat the $95 as well because we want to play a small SPR pot for stacks. Reraising the $95 with AA/KK would be a pretty big mistake if you are trying to maximize EV.

On the flop V1 is stacking off with hands like Kx:Q, AKx, all made flushes and KK/66/44. Against a pretty tight range of KK,66,44,AsQs,AsTs,QsTs,Ts8s,Ts7s,8s7s,As5s,7s5s,A sKd,AsKh,AsKc,KdQs,KhQs,KcQs we are ~60/40.

Good villain was in the hi-jack, should've said that.
I was OTB
Villain 2 who shoved was UTG +1/2ish

Really surprised V1 didn't 4b to ~475 or something. I strongly discounted that from his range based on the pf call. fun post OP

In theory, sure, but more often than not when I've stacked off in these spots really deep with the 3rd nuts I was dead and maybe that's got me playing a bit more cautiously deep. I would probably have folded but it wouldn't have been an easy fold and I would have tanked forever.

I agree. Hero should snap V2's shove, but needs to think for a minute after V1 insta-calls. The SPR matters less after a 300BB shove + call. V2 and V1's image is way more important than the SPR.

Hero needs to win about 30% to call. I think V2 a relatively weak range and never has the nut flush or KK+. V1 is more nutted.

V2: 66/44/As8x+/KxTs+/QsTs/8s7s

I think the tightest range we can give V1 is: 66/AsKx/AsXs+/QsTs/8s7s

The above range works out to just under 30%. Toss in AA and KK and hero jumps to 40%. I also doubt V1 has all Axs in his range.

Bottom line, worst case scenario hero is very, very slightly -EV or well ahead. Hero should call. Pretty laughable what V2 showed up with. This is an easy fold if V1 was a tighter player.

The SPR is literally the most important thing here. When you are faced with a difficult decision and don't know what to do, the conjunction of SPR and absolute hand strength should be your guide.

There is nearly $400 (133 BB's) in the pot on the flop alone. People fight for pots as they grow larger and subsequently do dumb things. The very reason this is a snap call is because V2 is super light here which in turn makes V1's calling range fairly light relative hand strength wise which makes our absolute and relative hand strength a monster.

Our hand is so ridiculously nutted there is nothing to think about. We are so far ahead of their range that it's a borderline fist pump call. I typed up my first response on my phone passing out in bed at 7am after a poker session and it was obvious then and after doing the combo analysis is even more obvious.

SPR means **** if villain has the nut flush. Obviously not the case for these two villains. Basic range analysis is king.

Can always count on you to fall back on straw man arguments Eddie.

Someone should keep a scoreboard for hands like this where several people disagree about a big all in call. You know the ones where there's a "spirited debate" with people arguing both sides. I especially like the ones where some people say "Fold AINEC" or "snap call".

Anyone who says Call or Fold after results are posted just so they can be right, loses double the amount of the call automatically.

Excellent range analysis putting villans on the nut flush of spades.