Ding, ding, ding

What's the point of being LAG if you aren't going to play your dominating hands in a manner that gets you max value?

I understand there is no FD out there but there are 2 paint cards in a 3 bet pot, either one (or both) of them has a playable hand, in which case you should be shoveling money in, or neither is continuing unless they get their gin card, which in all likelihood, murders your hand

raise flop, as played gii.

sick cooler i guess but getting it in is best.

Bothers me you didn't raise the flop.

I feel like this forum has become the BBV forum since everyone is assuming that because the hand is posted that our Hero lost the hand.

I do not consider folding here for a second. We are not deep enough to fold. The question is - do we make more money calling the turn or shoving the turn?

The OP never states the position of V1 but it looks like she is the button?

Since we are out of position with only $135 left behind if we call, I think we get more value from a shove because Villain is likely to check behind the hands we beat on the river and shove the hands that beat us. (There is a slight possibility that the flush comes on the river and scares Villain into checking behind with a better set).

If Villain does have AQ I think we aren't too unhappy with a fold to our shove because:
- AQ has 6 outs against us so if we aren't making any more money anyways, we'd love to win this pot 100% of the time instead of only 86% of the time.
- Unless we donk-bet the river, there is a good chance that AQ checks behind after we check the river

I shove turn.

Edit to add I'm fine with flatting the flop as there are not a lot of straight draws or flush draws so most of the cards that help our villains on the turn actually just help them stack off to us.

Turn is trivial shove.

OTF, the ONLY reason I'm calling is if I'm. 100% sure the other V will come along.

Turn really is a must shove though.

Since when does AQ have 6 outs against us? There should be 2 Aces, and 2 Queens...

And really? You'd rather win 100% of the $380 pot (plus we keep our $130), instead of the actual 92% (not 86%) of the $620 pot?

One is an EV of ~$510, the other is ~$570.
You want to leave $60 on the table just to prevent getting out drawn 8% of the time?

If we shoved, and villain flips up AQ and folds, while we would remain calm at the table, we should be very very very unhappy with the outcome of the hand. Where as you are telling me that you'd be happy.

That's no good if you want to maximize your value.

You are correct about 4 outs vs 6 outs. My bad

You misunderstood why I'd prefer the Villain folds. If these are the only two scenarios when Villain has AQ:

1) Hero calls turn. Villain plans to fold to any river bet and check behind if Hero checks unless Villain fills up. EV = win $380 91% of the time, lose $380 plus an additional $135 9% of the time. EV +$333.65

2) Hero ships turn. Villain folds. EV + $380.00

So we gain $46.35 in EV by shipping and having Villain fold AQ compared to scenario 1. If we plan to donk-bet the river to offset this, we'd have to bet the full $135 on the river and be called by AQ 34% of the time more than we would have been called on a turn shove.

If we are ranging villain at AQ only then we never lose the last $135.
Why are we calling when we are beat?...

We don't have to put the money in just because we have a full house...

We shove the 92% of the time that she doesn't fill up, and we just ck/fold when she does..

Obviously we are not ranging villain at AQ only. I am just demonstrating that since we are out of position we are better off shoving even if it causes AQ to fold on the turn.

I am getting stacks in pretty much no matter what if Villain has AA or QQ and has AQ and fills up on the river. I got coolered with 33 vs T2 when the board came out T32 with a T on the turn last month. I'm still never folding that hand. My only regret is that he would have ran it twice or three times if we had gotten it all in on the flop so I could have reduced variance by shoving flop.

We generally shouldn't try to find folds that aren't there and put villains on exact hands (unless they show us their cards). I always put a 10% WTF? range on my villains. With all the dead money in the pot, you'd have to assign AA/QQ as over 70% of her range in order to find a fold. Considering there are only 6 combos of AA/QQ out there with 12 combos of AK and 9 combos of AQ, plus plenty of other hands that villain could logically play this hand plus the WTF? hands, I just could not put a villain on AA/QQ over 70% of the time.

I'm thinking pretty much exactly this.

We flop a monster with half the table in the hand, and the flop hits pretty much all their range. I like a flat to let others call with their TPWK and unbelieving second pair hands to get some dead money in the middle.

The turn is hammer time. Our shove gets called by 2pr hands and some Tp/combo draw hands. Unlikely that many hands we beat and give us value give up 3 streets of value if their hands don't improve, so get it in.

Ship it. Expect to see AK, AQ a lot more than AA, QQ, A7 rarely. V2 prob has Ax a lot, or also KJ, KT, possibly with hearts. Never expect to see V1 w/66 here, even fish know betting an underpair into 2 ppl is silly. Also, raise flop to extract value from Ax, more likely to be called since absolute bet is smaller, and charge straight draws.