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Flop 2nd nuts, turn is...not so great.  Need help at two spots. Flop 2nd nuts, turn is...not so great.  Need help at two spots.

12-09-2014 , 02:31 PM
0.25/0.50 home game, which plays much higher because straddles and double straddles are very common, with the occasional triple straddle. Everyone at the game knows each other and has extensive history. The game is generally very aggressive.

Hero - viewed as LAG. My triple barrels or big bets have sometimes been called down light, so players are aware that I'm capable of making moves. The table generally respects my game though, and I don't think they think I make moves just to make moves.

They may think I'm somewhat on tilt this session, as I've been down as many as 400 bbs after losing two massive hands when we GII on the turn and I got 2-outed and 4-outed, respectively.

Villain in this hand is super LAG. His PF range is nearly ATC from any position. He does seem to understand post-flop play well though, and he tightens up/picks his spots better there than PF. He is more than capable of making moves, and I've seen him make smallish raises with air multiway when in position.

We have announced it is the last hand of the night. Effective stacks with villain are $100, with BTN would be about $200.

Villain (UTG) raises to $2. CO folds, BTN (LAG villain from other hand) calls. Hero in SB looks down at K 5 and calls. BB (TP, kind of fishy) calls.

Flop ($8): 9 8 3

Hero checks, BB checks, Villain bets $4. BTN folds, Hero raises to $16 (thoughts on sizing welcome here) Villain calls after a moment.

Turn: Q

Hero....? Four options could be in play. B/c? B/f? C/c? C/r?

Then, assume Hero bets $25. Villain announces all-in somewhat quickly ($57 more). Hero pukes and tanks.

Villain is stone cold silent and motionless - something I have not seen from him before. He's a very talkative, personable guy, even when he's in big pots. But this time, he won't respond to anything. Just looking straight ahead down at the cards, won't even answer when I ask to confirm the raise amount. It's $57 more for a pot of $147.
Flop 2nd nuts, turn is...not so great.  Need help at two spots. Quote
12-09-2014 , 03:56 PM
Idk ur prolly beat but u gettin good price. I lik check turn more caus e it's tuff to get 2 streets value when 4
Spade hits
Flop 2nd nuts, turn is...not so great.  Need help at two spots. Quote
12-09-2014 , 08:05 PM
"Villain calls after a moment" lures us into a call IMO.

Ace of spades doesn't have much to think about on the flop.

Spend the $25 we saved when we folded fourth pair (44's) <smile> and look him up.
Flop 2nd nuts, turn is...not so great.  Need help at two spots. Quote
12-09-2014 , 08:13 PM
"We have announced it is the last hand of the night."

Makes it a call. The good news is that when you are ahead the Villain is pretty much drawing dead.
Flop 2nd nuts, turn is...not so great.  Need help at two spots. Quote
12-09-2014 , 08:29 PM
Eh, I fold here. You've shown a ton of strength on two streets. For him to be bluffing this river, he would've had to call your big flop cr without the nut redraw. If he's thinking at all, he would've had to tell himself on the flop "nah, I'm good, he probably just has the ace of spades." Then the flush comes through, you bet again, and he'd have to change his mind and decide "no no, this guy flopped a flush, and now I can rep the ace and force a fold out of him. That'll totally work. Also, I hate money."

The only hand you can beat is a pure-bull****-float on the flop.

Sure, it's the last hand of the night, so he *might* be bull**** floating. But it's way more likely that he shows up with the nuts here.
Flop 2nd nuts, turn is...not so great.  Need help at two spots. Quote
12-10-2014 , 06:48 PM
No more thoughts? I actually thought this was kind of a key type of moment that can be applied to many situations, so I'm much more interested in this than the other hand I posted.
Flop 2nd nuts, turn is...not so great.  Need help at two spots. Quote
12-10-2014 , 08:03 PM
Based on your description of V, history, and it being the last hand of the night, I think I make a crying call here.
Flop 2nd nuts, turn is...not so great.  Need help at two spots. Quote
12-10-2014 , 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwolyswoND
No more thoughts? I actually thought this was kind of a key type of moment that can be applied to many situations, so I'm much more interested in this than the other hand I posted.
You obviously gave us a lot of information that could be used to try to get a read (the Villain didn't talk or move), it was the last hand of the night, etc.

I think that players are always more likely to bluff / call light on the last hand of the night in a home game. The only hands that beat you are a A or JT. The only other hands that have decent outs against you are sets, but I really don't see a set shoving this turn. You have to call $57 to win $147 so you don't have to be right very often to make this a +EV call. You said Villain is a super LAG so it makes sense that he'd have no spade or a smaller spade enough to make this an easy call.
Flop 2nd nuts, turn is...not so great.  Need help at two spots. Quote
12-11-2014 , 02:30 PM
Results:

After tanking longer than I can ever recall doing and trying everything to make him give away any info whatsoever, I called. Villain showed the A
Flop 2nd nuts, turn is...not so great.  Need help at two spots. Quote
12-11-2014 , 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwolyswoND
Results:

After tanking longer than I can ever recall doing and trying everything to make him give away any info whatsoever, I called. Villain showed the A
One of the things about poker is that no matter how well you play you aren't going to win every hand. I try to play poker more based on math than based on feelings/reads. The math tells me to call there (main downside being that we are drawing dead when we're beat) so I'd call and chalk it up to bad luck.
Flop 2nd nuts, turn is...not so great.  Need help at two spots. Quote

      
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