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Old 08-26-2015, 09:23 PM   #1
6betfold
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Flatting sets on flush draw boards

Played two hands yesterday, flopped a set both times and lost action by raising both times.. Starting stacks are ~180 in both hands..

Hand 1:
HJ $15, CO call, Hero call with 55 on BTN, BB call..

Flop: K85ss.. HJ bets $25, CO calls, Hero raises to $120, everyone folds


Hand 2:
Hero limps 66 UTG, 5 limps, BB raises $15, Hero and 3-4 others call..

Flop: K62cc.. BB bets $30, Hero raises to $75, everyone folds..

I figured my raise was too big in Hand 1 so I made it smaller in Hand 2 but everyone still folded anyway.

Considering the board isn't too wet in both hands except a minute possibility of a SD in Hand 1 and only a flush draw otherwise, is it superior to slow play sets on such boards especially if Hero has a tight image? We had position in both hands and V's might have spazzed out their stacks with a variety of hands (although they are ABC players) on the turn given how shallow they were.
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:05 PM   #2
Triplerangemerge22
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Re: Flatting sets on flush draw boards

usually raise here. flat if they fold too often and get value on river.

bluff raise if they fold too often
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:23 PM   #3
losingisfun
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Re: Flatting sets on flush draw boards

This. Balance your range by bluff raising me if they perceive you as tight. Once they catch on that you bluff raise then your sets will start getting paid
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:46 PM   #4
The@rrival
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Re: Flatting sets on flush draw boards

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6betfold View Post
Starting stacks are ~180 in both hands.

Hand 1:
HJ $15, CO call, Hero call with 55 on BTN, BB call.

Flop: K85ss
HJ bets $25, CO calls, Hero raises to $120, everyone folds
I don't think there's any money left on the table with this line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6betfold View Post
Hand 2:
Hero limps 66 UTG, 5 limps, BB raises $15, Hero and 3-4 others call.

Flop: K62cc
BB bets $30, Hero raises to $75, everyone folds.

I figured my raise was too big in Hand 1 so I made it smaller in Hand 2, but everyone still folded anyway.
Yeah, this is results oriented thinking. When we size our raise, we should get in the habit of denying the best possible drawing hand proper calling odds. You're laying pretty juicy odds to a nut flush draw here. There's $150 in the pot so we should aim for $120 again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6betfold View Post
flopped a set both times and lost action by raising both times.
These pots are greater than 50% of your stack. Taking them down is awesome in its own right. If your opponents are regularly passive here, just print money and smile.

Bottom line, getting folds a couple of times in a row is just a representation of variance -- as common as flopping a set in a small pot and getting no action. It just feels like we messed up because the SPR is so low that we expect to GII as a huge favorite pretty often.
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Old 08-27-2015, 12:02 AM   #5
shrewsbury91
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Re: Flatting sets on flush draw boards

It depends on a few factors which include but are not limited to the number of opponents in the pot, the double-barrel/bluff frequency of the original raiser as well as stack sizes. If we assume the original raisers in both hands are one and done type guys who just aren't capable of double barreling then I like raising. In hand 1, I think raising is the superior play however I disagree on the sizing because it is too big, especially since stack sizes are shallow(<100bb). With the CO coming along here, I like raising to $80 which is sufficient to charge draws, but you also get some fat value without scaring away HJ or CO when they have Kx.

Hand 2 I probably raise slightly bigger around $85ish; I feel there is just too many opponents behind where they could easily have a FD and by flatting you give them good odds to continue in the hand. With BB betting into 4 players on the flop, BB's range is weighted more toward stronger holdings so his hand is likely to continue to a raise unless BB is the type to c-bet 85-90% of his hands.

There are times to slowplay a set on a flush/straight draw board, I just think it isn't appropriate in these two hands. Sorry HJ and BB folded but they most likely had nothing and were not going to put any more money into the pot anyways unless they are complete aggromaniacs.
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