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Fit or Fold Fit or Fold

06-14-2014 , 03:42 PM
In V descriptions, I often see the term "fit or fold". I'm assuming this means that if the V hits the flop, he continues. If he misses the flop, he folds. I play $1/$2 games and would describe myself this way. Maybe once in a blue moon, I'll play back at a lag when I know he's got nothing; but I virtually never continue if I don't get a piece of the flop. Is this a bad thing?

I know at higher levels, you have to balance your play, but is there ever a reason to continue post flop when you completely miss in a live $1/2 game?
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06-14-2014 , 05:53 PM
Not if your limping. Dont play limp pots. Hone your soul reading skills. Like they say, it's hard to make a hand. If you just c/f every time you miss, you'll get pushed around allot.
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06-14-2014 , 06:19 PM
It's very dependent on your opponents, the stacks, positions, and finally cards. At some tables I wouldn't dream of betting air. At others I'm betting constantly. If you're 100% fit/fold all the time then you're not adjusting to individual spots. It's not always wrong to check with air, but its not always right either.
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06-14-2014 , 06:43 PM
Also probably obvious, but I think you should be pretty much "fit or fold" in multi-way pots. If it's heads up, it's much more likely your opponent missed too. You should c-bet often if you had the lead preflop and/or float when you have position and you know your opponent will shut it down if he misses the flop and will check turn once you call his c-bet.

FWIW, Harrington also suggests bluff-raising paired and monotone flops as it's hard for preflop raiser to continue without a hand.
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06-14-2014 , 06:48 PM
What do you mean "play back at a lag when he's got nothing"? What does "play back" mean? And how do you know he's got nothing? I'm not sure you're adjusting correctly to LAG opponents.

Think about your own play and how it's exploitable. If I raise you, and you call with a standard ABC calling range, and you're folding if you miss, how would I exploit you? If I were in position, I would bet just about eveyr time you check, inducing you to fold alot and not really needing any hand myself. But if I'm out of position I can just fire at the pot carelessly knowing that you will fold 70% of the time. Furthermore, when you do play, your hand is exposed. That allows me to fold, and stop betting with an unbalanced range (which is the weakness YOU should be trying to exploit).
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06-14-2014 , 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse123
Maybe once in a blue moon, I'll play back at a lag when I know he's got nothing; but I virtually never continue if I don't get a piece of the flop. Is this a bad thing?
Like everything else, it's table dependent. What are the other players like? If they're mostly FoF, then "once in a blue moon" isn't often enough. From late positions, at tight-weak tables, I'll bang it with pocket pairs as weak as fives. I also like suited connectors as raising hands here as well. I'll fire again at any flop, and usually take it down, and I have redraws if one of these vills calls my c-bet. Most FoF vills don't think you have such hands because they've never raised with them and can't fathom that you would. Need I point out that you never want to show if it's not absolutely necessary?

Depending on the particular vill, sometimes it takes two barrels or unloading the entire magazine. I've seen bet sizing tells that let me know if the vill's whiffed a Big Slick, and your underpair or tiny piece of the board's good on the end.

Quote:
FWIW, Harrington also suggests bluff-raising paired and monotone flops as it's hard for preflop raiser to continue without a hand.
I'd take that with a grain of salt. You need to watch out for vills like me who just might repop here. I wouldn't do it as an auto play.
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06-15-2014 , 10:20 AM
it usually applies to players who limp call....they limp you raise they call...if they miss the flop they check you bet and they fold...

Well you really should not be limp calling....in fact you should not be limping very much OOP...you game will improve if you raise first or second in about 100% of the time...(yes there are exceptions but really just stop limping and your game improves as does your results)...

If your limp calling lagy late position players then, fit or fold is just going to be a disaster..

If you insist on limping small pairs from up front and calling with the intention of hitting a set (or calling a raiser with this intention and the odds)...then Ok fit or fold fine...though against many players taking pots away may be a better line some %....(bet sizing tells type things...)

What you really have to avoid at low stake poker is exploiting yourself...that is calling players who raise wide and cbet wide with the intention of playing fit or fold...that's just burning money....Low stake liive players are not good exploiting you...but many bad lines will exploit yourself...
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06-15-2014 , 12:43 PM
Grunch,
Playing fit or fold against perceptive and aggressive players is very exploitable, although you can still win a lot of money at any level playing this way as long as you're quite tight PF. Fortunately for you there aren't a lot of players at 1/2 NL that will exploit you playing F or F. Yes you can increase your profitability by sometimes making moves (not playing fit or fold, floating, bluff raising), but you can't force it. It comes from understanding your opponents' tendencies, especially there PF ranges, Cbet frequencies, and their sizing on both streets in relation to the playing styles and number of Villain they face in the hand. The first step in not playing F or F is to be extremely aware of all Villains' stated tendencies. Next, don't make a move when you see a situation that looks good to you. Instead remember that situation exactly and post the hand on this forum with a title like "should I float?" or "good spot to bluff raise?
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