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First Time Posting! A few hands First Time Posting! A few hands

10-05-2019 , 03:31 PM
Hey ya’ll just a few hands I’d like your opinion on, all were from 1/3 NL

1. Hero Call, acceptable?

Hero opens from UTG with AJo for 10
HJ calls, button calls
Flop is QQ2
Hero c bets for 15
HJ folds, button calls
Turn is a 6, both check
Riv is a 7, hero checks (no flush draws btw)
V bets 25

2. Probably my worst played hand of the day

CO opens to 20 after a few limpers
Hero calls from button with KcJs
UTG calls after limping
Flop is Jd8c6c
Both V’s check, hero bets 30
UTG calls, CO folds
Turn is a 9
V checks, hero bets 100
V goes all in for 198, hero calls

3. Are these always a fold?

Hero UTG opens with 7c7d for 15
Buttons calls
Flop is QcTc3s
Hero bets 20
V calls
Turn is 2c
Hero checks, V bets 50

Last edited by Garick; 10-05-2019 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Deleted results
First Time Posting! A few hands Quote
10-05-2019 , 04:46 PM
Welcome to the forum.
I'm gonna beat the mods to the punch and say that you'll get better results by posting 1 hand per thread, adding player reads, effective stacks and potsizes, and certainly not show results .

H1: pre should be bigger, folding isn't terrible either. If it's 10 handed it's a clear fold imo.
Flop is too big, 10-12 would be fine. Turn and river look good.

H2: check back turn, we block a club and the 9 is way too coordinated with the board. QT,J9,89,T7,75 all got there. AP, sucky spot but hard to fold for 98 more. He probably has JT or T9 juuuust enough to justify a call.

H3: check flop (and mostly fold vs a bet). As played i don't think it's a terrible spot to just bet again and fold out Tx and straightdraws without a club. Check-folding is obviously fine also.
And, similar to H1, pre could/should be a fold.
First Time Posting! A few hands Quote
10-05-2019 , 05:17 PM
Yup. Welcome to the forum. I deleted the results, but everything Viral said is correct, except the big bet OTT was not good with TPGK, and it's probably still a fold, even given pot odds.
First Time Posting! A few hands Quote
10-05-2019 , 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trev_Margo
Hey ya’ll just a few hands I’d like your opinion on, all were from 1/3 NL

1. Hero Call, acceptable?

Hero opens from UTG with AJo for 10
HJ calls, button calls
Flop is QQ2
Hero c bets for 15
HJ folds, button calls
Turn is a 6, both check
Riv is a 7, hero checks (no flush draws btw)
V bets 25

2. Probably my worst played hand of the day

CO opens to 20 after a few limpers
Hero calls from button with KcJs
UTG calls after limping
Flop is Jd8c6c
Both V’s check, hero bets 30
UTG calls, CO folds
Turn is a 9
V checks, hero bets 100
V goes all in for 198, hero calls

3. Are these always a fold?

Hero UTG opens with 7c7d for 15
Buttons calls
Flop is QcTc3s
Hero bets 20
V calls
Turn is 2c
Hero checks, V bets 50

Hey man. Try posting hands separately; it’ll help center the discussion.

1) I’d bet much smaller on this texture. Like 10. Maybe call a raise too since people love to slow play Qx. As played, hero call can be ok. I do expect to see a pocket pair a lot, though.

2) for sure fold pre. If you aren’t folding, 3 bet. This hand is too weak to call. Bigger on flop as well. On the turn, this is probably your worst value hand, so I think you can actually fold here, even at 4.2:1. The times he’s got a value hand, you’re dead.

3) why the different preflop raise sizes? Is this an adjustment you made in game because of a loose table? Don’t bet flop. As played for sure check fold turn: he can have lots of good hands here and even his weakest bluffs (like 98) have a ton of equity versus you. You’re drawing to a 7 high one card flush OOP getting around 2.4:1 essentially. A bad spot for your $.


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First Time Posting! A few hands Quote
10-05-2019 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viral25
Welcome to the forum.
I'm gonna beat the mods to the punch and say that you'll get better results by posting 1 hand per thread, adding player reads, effective stacks and potsizes, and certainly not show results .

H1: pre should be bigger, folding isn't terrible either. If it's 10 handed it's a clear fold imo.
Flop is too big, 10-12 would be fine. Turn and river look good.

H2: check back turn, we block a club and the 9 is way too coordinated with the board. QT,J9,89,T7,75 all got there. AP, sucky spot but hard to fold for 98 more. He probably has JT or T9 juuuust enough to justify a call.

H3: check flop (and mostly fold vs a bet). As played i don't think it's a terrible spot to just bet again and fold out Tx and straightdraws without a club. Check-folding is obviously fine also.
And, similar to H1, pre could/should be a fold.
Thanks! Oh gotcha my bad so we don’t post what the actual result was and just post each hand individually. Should I make my own thread someone instead of just spamming this forum?

H1: Yes the bet was small and should probably be around 15 every time for 1-3 NL right?

H2: It just seemed like a good idea to bet turn to charge draws/bet my hand for value against Jx, TT, 99, 8x type hands which are all in the V’s range. I think my bet sizing was off and committed me when I could have folded the Turn.

H3: In HU/3 way pots I do like to c-bet almost 100% of the time in 1-3 NL live games, seems very +EV. Also you mentioned folding pre. The AJ from H1 was the bottom of my range for opening pre but I can’t justify folding 77 pre, even if it is UTG...? Seems very nitty.
First Time Posting! A few hands Quote
10-05-2019 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
Hey man. Try posting hands separately; it’ll help center the discussion.

2) for sure fold pre. If you aren’t folding, 3 bet. This hand is too weak to call. Bigger on flop as well. On the turn, this is probably your worst value hand, so I think you can actually fold here, even at 4.2:1. The times he’s got a value hand, you’re dead.

3) why the different preflop raise sizes? Is this an adjustment you made in game because of a loose table? Don’t bet flop. As played for sure check fold turn: he can have lots of good hands here and even his weakest bluffs (like 98) have a ton of equity versus you. You’re drawing to a 7 high one card flush OOP getting around 2.4:1 essentially. A bad spot for your $.
2) Seems so tight to fold pre cause I’m on the button and I do like to play post flop with 1-3 NL players as much as I can while not making any -EV plays. I should mention the effective stacks just couldn’t warrant a 3 bet and player who opened is too tight to try and squeeze.

3) yes I made an in-game adjustment to open for 15 from UTG every time. I’ve been c betting HU/3 way pots all game, doesn’t checking here basically give up my exact hand range which V can then easily exploit/bluff? Especially in position.
First Time Posting! A few hands Quote
10-05-2019 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Yup. Welcome to the forum. I deleted the results, but everything Viral said is correct, except the big bet OTT was not good with TPGK, and it's probably still a fold, even given pot odds.
Thanks! So I guess the best spot here is to check back the T and then call Riv?
First Time Posting! A few hands Quote
10-05-2019 , 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trev_Margo
2) Seems so tight to fold pre cause I’m on the button and I do like to play post flop with 1-3 NL players as much as I can while not making any -EV plays. I should mention the effective stacks just couldn’t warrant a 3 bet and player who opened is too tight to try and squeeze.



3) yes I made an in-game adjustment to open for 15 from UTG every time. I’ve been c betting HU/3 way pots all game, doesn’t checking here basically give up my exact hand range which V can then easily exploit/bluff? Especially in position.

The problem is, it is a -EV play. KJo will have a lot of RIO issues (your top pairs will be beat often as pots get big) and you’ll underrealize your equity as it’s offsuit. If you think your opponents are playing a range of hands where KJo is doing well, then three bet it. Take down dead $.

Hand 3: not at all. Balance your play out. Check QJ for example. Check top set from time to time. Check give up a hand like A9. Your weak showdown range is extensive on a board like QTx (AK, AJ, 77-99).

Think of it this way: if you have a good but not great hand and would like to bet twice, what difference does it make if you check now or later? If you make your opponent think your Hand is weak, you may get value from portions of his range that would have just folded beforehand.


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First Time Posting! A few hands Quote
10-05-2019 , 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
The problem is, it is a -EV play. KJo will have a lot of RIO issues (your top pairs will be beat often as pots get big) and you’ll underrealize your equity as it’s offsuit. If you think your opponents are playing a range of hands where KJo is doing well, then three bet it. Take down dead $.

Hand 3: not at all. Balance your play out. Check QJ for example. Check top set from time to time. Check give up a hand like A9. Your weak showdown range is extensive on a board like QTx (AK, AJ, 77-99).

Think of it this way: if you have a good but not great hand and would like to bet twice, what difference does it make if you check now or later? If you make your opponent think your Hand is weak, you may get value from portions of his range that would have just folded beforehand.


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Yes I do understand the RIO implications on KJo and these types of hands is what you want a lot of the 1-3 live regs to show up with at showdown. I just figured it would be best to flat because of stack sizes (V who opened didn’t have a lot of chips and neither did UTG player so SPR kind of made me think 3 betting is not best and folding on button is too tight.

Okay I’m starting to understand the check on the flop with 77 because I already have showdown value. It’s probably best to check/call the flop then fold the turn in this spot?
First Time Posting! A few hands Quote
10-05-2019 , 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trev_Margo
Yes I do understand the RIO implications on KJo and these types of hands is what you want a lot of the 1-3 live regs to show up with at showdown. I just figured it would be best to flat because of stack sizes (V who opened didn’t have a lot of chips and neither did UTG player so SPR kind of made me think 3 betting is not best and folding on button is too tight.



Okay I’m starting to understand the check on the flop with 77 because I already have showdown value. It’s probably best to check/call the flop then fold the turn in this spot?

3 betting hands like KJo are almost universally going to outperform calling.

By three betting, you give yourself a chance to win right now. Every time you do, that’s dead $ you’d never give yourself a chance to get by calling.

By 3 betting, you uncap your range. Now if the flop comes T53r and he calls your cbet, you can barrel some turns or opt to check. Now you see all 5 cards, and top pairs perform a lot better in HU pots.

Do the game tree out. What’s likely to happen if you call? What’s your equity and how will you realize it? Compare to 3 betting: what % chance do you take it down? What % chance do you get called and what % of the time do you win when you do? What % chance do you get 4 bet and have to fold?

Preflop, everyone has equity. Even 72o beats aces 11.8% of the time. Getting situations where it’s profitable to get people to fold is huge.


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First Time Posting! A few hands Quote
10-05-2019 , 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
3 betting hands like KJo are almost universally going to outperform calling.

By three betting, you give yourself a chance to win right now. Every time you do, that’s dead $ you’d never give yourself a chance to get by calling.

By 3 betting, you uncap your range. Now if the flop comes T53r and he calls your cbet, you can barrel some turns or opt to check. Now you see all 5 cards, and top pairs perform a lot better in HU pots.

Do the game tree out. What’s likely to happen if you call? What’s your equity and how will you realize it? Compare to 3 betting: what % chance do you take it down? What % chance do you get called and what % of the time do you win when you do? What % chance do you get 4 bet and have to fold?

Preflop, everyone has equity. Even 72o beats aces 11.8% of the time. Getting situations where it’s profitable to get people to fold is huge.


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Should I just increase my 3 bet frequency in general in this range/position (QTo-AQo/button-HJ. I don’t think I have a 3 bet/fold range from these positions currently, I always just opt to flat but it sounds like that’s a bad idea and I’m understanding why now.
First Time Posting! A few hands Quote
10-06-2019 , 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trev_Margo
Should I just increase my 3 bet frequency in general in this range/position (QTo-AQo/button-HJ. I don’t think I have a 3 bet/fold range from these positions currently, I always just opt to flat but it sounds like that’s a bad idea and I’m understanding why now.

Absolutely. And live we can 3 bet more, since people won’t four bet us liberally. Bear in mind, for example, that a lot of the old school, pre-GTO/solver style play, that a lot of the big winners online were LAGbeasts, three betting 11-13%. It’s a good exploit when people are raising too widely, as you still see in live poker.


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First Time Posting! A few hands Quote
10-07-2019 , 11:59 AM
A lot of focus on opening 3 betting range to include KJo, don't forget that folding is fine too. I'd pick my spots when 3 betting this light. You already seem hesitant to three bet not just because of SPR / stack sizes but you also mention "and player who opened is too tight to try and squeeze". By flatting you're saying that you want to play a large pot with a hand that's behind and hope to outflop the PFR. While the point has been made correctly that 3 betting is better than flatting here, folding is often still best if the PFR opening range is too tight.
First Time Posting! A few hands Quote
10-07-2019 , 01:57 PM
H1:

I fold preflop. I'm ok with flop/turn. I check/fold river against most.

H2:

I fold preflop. I'm ok with flop bet. Turn I'm ok with betting (also ok with checking, a bit villain dependent), but I bet way less and fold to the check/shove.

H3:

I limp preflop (although you managed to get this HU so if that's expected I can't hate too much, albeit OOP). I don't bet as much on the flop (if betting at all) and give up after that.

Gdialdowntheaggressionwithmarginalhands,imoG
First Time Posting! A few hands Quote

      
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