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03-23-2014 , 05:15 AM
Starting to get back into poker after a long layoff after good ol' black friday. Was a decent winning player and paid for college doing it, but now I am rusty and probably a fish haha. Please help with the following hand:

2/5 at local casino (300 buy-in max ) Would play 1/3 to get back in the swing of things, but casino doesn't spread it.

V: female, very aggressive, seems to be a regular here. Bets 75% of flops after raising, been caught a few times multi-barreling. Stack: 450

H: Haven't played many hands at all since she got to the table.

I pick up 78 in HJ. One caller to me. I raise to 20. V calls in SB and the caller folds

Flop: 672

V checks, I bet 35. She calls.

Turn: 9

V checks again, I bet 70 with straight draw and what I believe to be best pair. She asks to see how many chips I have, then calls after a bit. (I think she is drawing to the heart flush with an over card or 2 at this point)

River: K

Basically the worst card I could think of. She quickly sets out a stack of 100.

Hero?
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03-23-2014 , 05:24 AM
Fold. I honestly would check back turn against an aggro like this once she's called my flop bet. You're almost never pushing someone like her off a draw so I don't like bloating the pot. As played, river is easy fold, IMHO... There's just sooooo much that can beat you
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03-23-2014 , 05:27 AM
Welcome back, btw
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03-23-2014 , 05:37 AM
But if I am confident she is on a draw of some sort here on the turn, I should not give Villain a free card right? Even if she has two overs here plus heart draw, I think I still have the edge to get a blank on the river. But maybe trying to call off a possible bluff bet on the river after a blank is better in this situation (and cheaper).
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03-23-2014 , 06:14 AM
I probably bet turn as well, but river is a fold AP imo - literally every hand that would call the flop within reason has at least a pair better than yours, except for 45 and random AhXx hands.
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03-23-2014 , 06:27 AM
Welcome back. Interesting spot. I think I'd fold river (and bet the turn like you did).
I'd also delay my C-bet sometimes Vs that Villain (regular) and see how they play turn card having position.

Good Luck.
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03-23-2014 , 06:47 AM
You did not say specifically, but I am assuming you had ~$300 at the start of the hand, i.e. 60BB. You are NOT deep. When playing so short stacked, I would not want to play a hand like 78s for a raise. Since the big blind folded, as played, your SPR was 280/45 ~ 6.2 which is way too low for speculative hands like middle suited connectors. You were not playing 7-8 for top pair!! When you made top pair on a board like the one that flopped, you had an incredibly vulnerable hand and were now playing in a pot bigger than you may have wanted it to be with your short stack, and giving an aggressive villain plenty of implied odds.

On the turn the pot is even more bloated. As played, you bet an amount that did not fully commit you. This set up a river in which an aggressive villain would lead out most scare cards as well as cards that hit her range. The K of hearts is the perfect bluff card. Now, the pot being $250 and you still having $175 behind, you are not fully committed. This set up the villain to make a good bluff.

The river, as played, is a fold. You set up the villain to make either a good bluff or make her hand with your bet sizing.

I would advocate having played this hand entirely different. I would have limped in with 7-8s on the button (with a bigger stack, I may raise in hopes of stealing the blinds). I would have bet about $10 on the flop, checked the turn, and either check or call a small river bet. In other words, with a short stack, I would only play small suited connectors in a manner in which I would not need to make tough decisions.
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03-23-2014 , 06:55 AM
She got there on the river. Just fold. She's not leading out often enough with air for you to call.
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03-23-2014 , 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
She got there on the river. Just fold. She's not leading out often enough with air for you to call.
Are you sure? Look at the villain's description. I agree that hero should fold, and is likely behind, but I am not sure that the K of hearts improved villain's hand. The half-pot bet on the river may be a blocking bet with a two-pair hand, a small set, a better pair, or same pair with better kicker, or a pure bluff. Regardless whether the villain has the flush or not, hero is still behind. Unfortunately, by bloating the pot with such a speculative hand and a short stack, villain set himself up for this river situation.
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03-23-2014 , 09:42 AM
If the king of hearts didn't improve her hand then what hands does she still have that are worse than 3rd pair? If anything she's likely to think the king improved hero's hand. He raised preflop, must be AK, right? I suppose there's still some busted straight draws in there somewhere. Yes, there's always a possibility that this is a desperation bluff but I don't think the odds of that are good enough to justify a call. I play this hand the same way, and fold river.

I agree that raising these types of hands is better deeper stacked than short, but I think keeping the pressure on limpers in position is still worth it. As long as raising has a decent chance of winning outright or isolating IP against fish limpers, I think it's still +EV.
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03-23-2014 , 12:59 PM
I think you played it fine. River is a fold now though. You have to get real creative to come up with a hand worse than ours that takes this line.
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03-23-2014 , 01:22 PM
i would just fold river. well played though . if he checked you can check behind for showdown value.
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03-23-2014 , 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAA44
Fold. I honestly would check back turn against an aggro like this once she's called my flop bet. You're almost never pushing someone like her off a draw so I don't like bloating the pot. As played, river is easy fold, IMHO... There's just sooooo much that can beat you
thats why you bet the turn to get thin value from draws.
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03-23-2014 , 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenFourOff
You did not say specifically, but I am assuming you had ~$300 at the start of the hand, i.e. 60BB. You are NOT deep. When playing so short stacked, I would not want to play a hand like 78s for a raise. Since the big blind folded, as played, your SPR was 280/45 ~ 6.2 which is way too low for speculative hands like middle suited connectors.
What is SPR? New acronym to me.

Also, I think you are right. Later that night, one of the other regulars who played like a super nit that I was chatting up, told me that this 2/5 game here plays a little lower then other 2/5 games that he has played and I don't need to level myself. That is, raise suited connectors and the like to throw people off that I haven't played much and that I only raise monsters. The very few hands the guy did play he still got action and called down by draws, middle pair, and top pair with bad kicker. He raked in big pots and just winked at me, hahaha.

Coupled with the unfortunate low max buy-in at this particular game, I think TenFourOff might be correct here. Also being a bit rusty, maybe the first few times out I need to play tight ABC poker, to keep me out of these types of situations until I get back in the swing of things.

Thanks for the replies everyone, that helped. Here is the result:

River:
Spoiler:
Hero folds
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03-23-2014 , 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlongjohnson
thats why you bet the turn to get thin value from draws.
Yes, if she is truly calling you with a draw. She's been betting and raising aggressively with almost any two cards. I'm usually betting here on the turn as played since a draw is either calling and not getting there or folding. Against a villain like this that's known to bluff a lot, and we have a pair of sevens on a board with straight drawz, 2 pairz, setz (which isn't likely since she would probably raise... But you never know), can't we check turn and if nothing falls then call her bet? She's almost never checking back if she bluffs 75% of the time and especially if hero "shows weakness", villains like that almost always pounce.

I didn't realize the turn brought the straight draw for us so ya I would continue to fire turn. Ssssoooorrrryyyyy.

If it didn't though, I might check back turn to keep the pot down against a villain like this.
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03-23-2014 , 02:07 PM
I like how you played it, have to fold the river. Rest is definitely good.
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03-23-2014 , 02:09 PM
SPR is stack to pot ratio. Relative stack to the size of the pot
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03-23-2014 , 02:10 PM
And yes, fold river. If checked to, check back. Good hand.

Fwiw, I probably wouldn't call with 78 here with stacks being so shallow
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03-23-2014 , 02:19 PM
Think you played the hand well. Your bet sizing was good and appropriate for giving drawing hands improper odds but river is a fold. If a blank hits I like a call against busted drawing hands with showdown potential.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using 2+2 Forums
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03-23-2014 , 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAA44
SPR is stack to pot ratio. Relative stack to the size of the pot
And what is a standard good ratio? I'm guessing the higher the ratio, the more moves you can make post flop?
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03-23-2014 , 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerealkiller050
And what is a standard good ratio? I'm guessing the higher the ratio, the more moves you can make post flop?
That's a 50,000 foot view of it. There's a lot more to it than can be explained in a post. A search on 2+2 will give you several threads that go into it in more detail.
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03-23-2014 , 03:54 PM
nh; wp. Now fold. Her check of your stack def looks like she was trying to see if she had the IOs to call turn. It's possible that the heart was a "bluff out," but very unlikely imo. A reg will not expect to have FE on a random with a < 1/2 pot bet there. It's almost certainly value.
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03-23-2014 , 04:10 PM
generally speaking, c/ c/c lead out is a made hand. Since your made hand doesn't really beat any other made hands, you can fold. Either she was already there and got scared you'd check back or she got there on the river somehow. If you find out she's just stupid aggro (which you didn't really say) then sure, but this isn't the case.
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