1/3 live V with effective stack of $260
V sits down 30min ago, haven’t seen him gone too out of line

HJ raises to $13 ( lower than standard)
Hero 3 bets to $45 in CO with A10dd
V 4bets to $75. H calls

Flop ($166) K46dsd
Both check

Turn 2c
Hero rips it in for $185.

Can’t really assign a range on him with a min 4 bet and check flop. it seems most likely to be QQ or maybe AQ. With a pot sized bet left, don’t think I can get away with the NFD. I Wanted to maximise the fold equity and it was hard to put him on hands better than AK with that flop check and I could definitely have those In my range. All comments would be appreciated

Not sure I'm crazy about ATs as a threebetting hand, the threebet is not for value and if it's a bluff then it's wasting the value of the ATs to some extent. Use the lower suited aces to threebet with and flat this one. Not a big deal really, threebetting could work out.

As played, the raise to 75 would be an underraise, but maybe the dealer didn't notice. Also you haven't given V's position, but given the order of things postflop, presumably he's on the button.

The turn bluff is suicidal. When people cold 4bet pre they don't check Kxx flops because they didn't flop anything, they cbet. Besides which, cold small 4bet ranges are insanely strong in the first place. Maybe he has QQ, maybe he flopped top set, maybe he's getting randomly fancy with AK or AA, but in none of those cases is he folding. I'd estimate your chances of getting a fold OTT at about 1%. Just check and hope he checks QQ again or bets small enough with whatever he has that you can call.

Spew. I'm not saying it won't ever work, but this is going to lose a lot of money over time.

My money would be on him having flopped top set, btw.

How does villain 4bet for a smaller amount than your 3bet...

Just bet/call the flop or shove flop yourself. You’re not deep and you want to fold out QQ.

I thought about recommending betting the flop but I seriously doubt QQ folds. I guess the only real downside is that you don't get a free card vs KK if he was going to check that. Getting a free card vs QQ isn't really upside because you're close to a flip there anyway. So might as well give betting a try.

I was thinking of doing this, but being out of position, i think I should be checking my entire range, if i bet/jam, it will make it look like what I have.

I just realised it was an underraise, probably because the dealer thoght original player put out $15. V is in BU.
I chose to semibluff the turn due to live reads that made me believe he was weak. After I checked the flop, the dealer accidentally put out the turn before V has acted. He did not say anything so I informed dealer of this, and he checked the flop nonetheless. I would imagine if he had any sort of big hand, he would react to this straight away.

If I were to bet the flop how much should I be betting $100? and ship the $80 on all turns?

(He did not have KKs btw )

Would you ever shove turn with a king or better in your hand? I don't think V is weak here all that often when he checks flop, he could be doing this with his entire range. I think you get called a decent amount but you do have outs. Not a total spew if he can fold JJ, QQ, AQ but not a slam dunk bluff either.

Amen to this.

Also how are we OOP as CO vs HJ?

If we had a king in our hand would we really donkbet shove on the flop into a 4bettor? Seems like we shouldn't have a lead range here. We would want him to take stabs with his Ax, or bet an amount he will call with QQ on a later street.

I'm assuming it's been folded to the HJ and he's capable of raising a wide range when folded to in LP? If so, I'm fine with the preflop 3bet.

Even though we're facing a minraise 4bet, I'm pretty sure it's still a snap fold as we're not going to flop nuttish hands enough and flopping an A could cost us our stack (while at the same time likely earning not too much against KK-).

As played, I probably jam the flop (we only have a little over a PSB left). AA and even KK are unlikely to check this flush draw flop as most players are extremely MUBSy that their opponent is on the draw and they don't want to give a free card. We have good hand equity and FE against QQ-/etc. It's unclear whether Villain has position on us; if he does, I'm not quite as thrilled with open jamming into him since a cold 4bet at LLSNL is like AA/KK a lot.

GcluelessNLnoobG

It wasn't clear in the OP that V was the BTN.

We shouldn't be calling 4bets OOP 85 BB's deep with ATs. We probably shouldn't be 3! HJ 85 BB's deep (or less as we don't know his stack size) with ATs.

agreed

The preflop call of the 4b is really interesting to me, and I would like to hear more thoughts about it, since I've found myself in similar spots fairly often, not knowing whether to call or fold.

OP's call was -EV because:

OP's call was +EV because:

main V is in BU. Original raiser was in HJ and he folded preflop so I'm OOP

With a SPR of 1, I think I would GII on the flop with AK+ and NFDs. either x/c or x/j the flop. I can definitely have all those hands on the turn and would jam it on the turn. The issue is against an unknown player type, being out of position, should I have no bluffs at all?

Because it's short-stacked 1/3 where 3! ranges are QQ+/AK meaning 4! ranges are bare minimum QQ+/AK.

You really just shouldn't have a 3!/call 4! range OOP at this stack depth. You've got 85 BB's. If you want to continue you need to 5! jam preflop. You need 40.5% to ship. Versus QQ+/AK you have 30% so you should just be folding to the 4!.

I'd try to see the river for as little as possible, check here. Spewy to me at least, but i'm no Tom Dwan when it comes to heart.

cc turn and exploit his ‘weak when strong’ line. he prob has AK KK+ and would bet something ridic small.

pre is w/e. Don’t mind the 3! and certainly not folding for 30 more. Odds are great.

If we were all-in preflop, sure, no way we can pass up on these immediate odds. But we're not all-in, and our RIO vs IO suck for the rest of our stacks postflop.

Geasyfoldpreflop,imoG

There are 6 combos of QQ vs. 6 combos of AA/KK. You’re just throwing in the towel versus his QQ when you x/c turn.

If you can fold half his range that has 75% equity that is a no brainer.

If he snaps you off with KK than lesson learned don’t 3bet/call ATs 85 BB’s deep.

There are nine combos of AK you neglected. Also, don't think either QQ or AK should be counted with full weight. Also also, usually the whole point of checking back the flop with QQ is so you can call off on a brick turn like this. I would expect QQ to hardly ever fold to Hero's jam.

C/c is def my preferred line AP. His range is super strong, and checking should induce him to bet small to garner calls from TT-QQ.

ETA: Ldo, c/f if he bets 80 or more.

Having a calling range is totally fine against this sizing. 4-bet or fold with our entire range is terrible when we're being offered 4.5:1 pot odds. In fact we should probably call with most of our 3-betting range.

Eyeballing the math, with ATs we are probably getting about the odds to turn our hand over and call against a range of AK, QQ+.

Again, if that ends the hand and gets us all in, then that's fine (ETA: Fine in the sense that our calling off of the 4bet all-in at this point would be ok, although terrible in our overall preflop result but that ship has sailed). The problem is that it doesn't as there are still stacks behind where our RIO vs IO suck. Good luck winning more with AT vs QQ- on A high flops than you lose vs AJ+, etc.

GcluelessNLnoobG